New Driveway questions

[Bigboyskioti]

Hello all, I'm getting ready to have the blacktop drive replaced with concrete. Just wanting to know what kind of labor charge I should expect? I've figured the concrete to be around 124 yards. The drive is 12' x 600' with a parking pad being 32 x 35, and the wife decided it might as well go to the shed also that will be a 40 x 40 pad. I'm tossing around the thickness but will probably go with 4" since nothing of any real size will be on it. So what should I expect for these guys to form and finish?

 

[Soundguy]

4.50$ per SF, @ 6" w/ wire mesh.

( that's what our company is paying for flatwork when we sub stuff out.. etc.. ) Location florida...

Soundguy

 

[Bigboyskioti]

Anybody ever use just fiber? No steel? I had a guy telle to forget the rebar and just use fiber..... It's been 16 years since I worked in the concrete business and don't remember using very much of the fiber.... Any thoughts on this?

 

[crbr]

Anybody ever use just fiber? No steel? I had a guy telle to forget the rebar and just use fiber..... It's been 16 years since I worked in the concrete business and don't remember using very much of the fiber.... Any thoughts on this?

Fiber is a myth for primary reinforcement. Wire mesh is about as much useless as a primary reinforcement. Fiber is for lessening of surface shrinkage cracking. Nothing more. The guy that told you that has not one clue as to what purpose for which fiber is used.

Reinforcement bar, placed properly within the concrete placement area is the proper way to maximize your concrete investment. That and expansion joints on where you prefer the concrete to crack (underlyingly).

There is another thread here somewhere close by that discusses this, if you want to read a bit more. Lots of opinions and discussion in that thread.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/102931-concrete-recipes-preventing-cracks.html

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

I have to agree with CRBR on this - fiberglass is pretty much useless for strength - and it makes finishing a pain. I've got a neighbor who went that route for his patio and ended up having to do a second pour to put a 2" cap on it because the surface was rougher than natural slate!

I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy, so I like to go with rebar and remesh at the same time. Also - are you planning on having the whole slab poured flat, or will you be pouring "microfootings" on the edges? (sort of like curbs, only on the bottom -- helps limit undercutting over the years)
if yes, don't forget to bend your metal into the deep pockets on the sides.

control cuts every 8-10 feet will let you pick where the cracks hit, as well.

 

[Bigboyskioti]

Is that 4.50 per sqft for labor?

 

[Ford850]

$3 - $4 per sq ft to form, pour, finish and seal for 4" in OH. Materials and labor included.

 

[Soundguy]

yeah.. 4.50 for the labor.. the mud is extra to cost.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Toiyabe]

Most new concrete highway pavements don't have rebar in them (Jointed Plain Concrete Pavement or JPCP). Just dowels across the joints. The key is keeping the joint spacing small, around 15'.

Continously reinforced concrete pavements (CRCP) or jointed reinforced concrete pavements (JRCP) do have rebar, but not for strength just to prevent faulting when they crack. CRCP and JRCP are not very popular any more.

That's about highway pavements, driveways are probably built differently but maybe not for a good reason.

 

[speedy67]

Highways can get away without the additional reiforcement because of the extensive use of chemical admixes (expensive) to reduce the need for extra water in the mix to make it workable. Highway concrete is laid by machine and requires minimal finish work by human hands. Highways also use larger aggregates which reduces further the need for water.

Most concrete really only requires about 12 to 16 gallons per yard (this is a generalization) to cure to a high strength. The extra water that most concrete has (another 12 to 16 gallons) is solely to make it easier to work with.

 

[crbr]

Concrete thread gone funny.


Here's the skinny on Jointed Plain Concrete Pavement and it is far from " Most new concrete highway pavements don't have rebar in them " where JPCP is an experiment in less than 11% of the United States.
Chapter 1, FHWA-RD-01-167 - LTPP - Pavements - FHWA

Highway and transportation infrastructure nationwide is full of rebar....and it will be for years to come.

Admixtures make concrete workable and aestheticly tolerable but that is it.

I have to stop here. Thanks Speedy.... (in the kindest way). Seriously....

 

[Toiyabe]

Highway portland cement concrete is generally specified at 4000 psi compressive strength. It's not crazy stuff. A contractor ought to be able to work with 4000 psi concrete without breaking the bank on admixtures.

Now there's also a lot of admixture use in pavements for air-entrainment and acceleration, but that's not to make a 4000 psi mix workable.

But I guess homeowner stuff is just done different.

 

[johnk]

Here in WNY concrete work with removal of old drive, new rebar and 4" of concrete is going for $4.50 a square foot with all included....

 

[Toiyabe]

Concrete thread gone funny.


Here's the skinny on Jointed Plain Concrete Pavement and it is far from " Most new concrete highway pavements don't have rebar in them " where JPCP is an experiment in less than 11% of the United States.
Chapter 1, FHWA-RD-01-167 - LTPP - Pavements - FHWA

Highway and transportation infrastructure nationwide is full of rebar....and it will be for years to come.

Admixtures make concrete workable and aestheticly tolerable but that is it.

I have to stop here. Thanks Speedy.... (in the kindest way). Seriously....

Wow. I need to stop giving advice on pavements. I guess I always come across as a jerk.

JPCP is a PAVEMENT TYPE. LTPP is a RESEARCH PROJECT, of which the SPS-2 experiment is specific to JPCP pavements. There happen to be SPS-2 experiments located in 14 out of 50 states, but that doesn't mean that only 14 out of 50 states build JPCP pavements. I've got no clue where you got your "11% of the United States" from.

I do a lot of work on LTPP. Never thought I'd come across a random link to it.

 

[Soundguy]

Wow... all this talk about hiway pavement is about as applicable to the driveway discussion that was goin on as is talking about structural steel hi-rise construction, when the guy just wan't to put up a pup tent.

To the original poster... lookup your local county building dept specs for a concrete drive.. meet those specs and permitting requirements... done deal.. no speculation on state studies and roadway concrete that don't apply to you.

This thread is a prime example of how some engineers give the general public a bad taste.

ask 3 engineers to build you a driveway.

One will quote specs for a theoretcal set of infrastructure.

one will design something that will be here for eons like the romans did

and one will build yo a driveway..

the last guy probably sn't popular cuse he doesn't run up building ost tabs for his contractors.

the 1st guy probably works in a govt job

and the 2nd guy is deffinately in private practice with an expensive builder

Soundguy

 

[toolaholic]

I charge ,and get, $10.00 Sq. Ft in the bay area. Sound's like You're a homeowner. Why would You be getting a subs' price? Talke to the poor folks that have the glass coming outa the slab forever on their garage floors!

 

[Soundguy]

I charge ,and get, $10.00 Sq. Ft in the bay area. Sound's like You're a homeowner. Why would You be getting a subs' price? Talke to the poor folks that have the glass coming outa the slab forever on their garage floors!

Who you replying to?? with no quotes.. it's hard to frame your response properly..

soundguy