New Garden Area

SouthernX · Feb 15, 2009

My wife and I want to put out a larger garden this year. We have a spot for it but this ground has never been planted before. It is covered with grass and legumes. I want to make sure that I prepare the soil so that it does not start growing grass and legumes after we have planted the garden. Will rototilling alone sufficiently pulverize the existing grass and legumes (and their roots) to keep the grass and legumes from coming back? Or, will I need to use a box blade and/or FEL to peel away a layer of soil to get the grass and legumes (and their roots) completely out of the garden soil.

Hope that made sense.

SouthernX · Feb 15, 2009

Oopps! I think I posted this in the wrong forum.

greenmule · Feb 15, 2009

I wouldn't scoop out any of that good top soil. Yeah it will have grass and weeds,but my garden has been in constant use for many years and it has plenty of weeds in it also. Some might say spray a grass killer and wait a few days and than till,that might be a good idea,but I wouldn't, ideally you should have plowed it up last fall and than tilled this spring,that would put the seeds and such underneath and let grass rot good. Till it now if tiller is all you got,than till it before planting,if you got a turn plow,plow it now,than till before you plant.

2manyrocks · Feb 16, 2009

You can break it with a large tiller, but it would be easier if you can get someone to plow it. Would have been better to plow it in the Fall and let it sit all winter, but you can plow it and just be prepared to have to do more cultivation to keep the weeds down. You have to start somewhere and work your way from where you start.

I wouldn't remove the top soil, and I would be very hesitant to spray an area I planned to plant a garden in.

Airic · Feb 16, 2009

I'm thinking of starting a garden as well but not started any of my research yet. I think I'll opt for the weed pulling this year. No intention to hijack your thread but, a few more questions on starting a garden.

1. Which way should the row be pointing (North/South or East/West) or does it matter?
2. On selecting a location what is more important, access to water or full sun. I have one location that gets sun for most of the day till about 6pm and has the ability to get water or another location that gets full sun but no water as it is to far from the house.

Twotone · Feb 16, 2009

When I moved to where I live 20 years ago, a vegatable garden was a must. I had a large area that was ideal, but all grass and weeds. I spent all summer turning the sod with a #2 razorback (shovel). I just did a little every night, good therapy. Oh yeah, it's 8000 sq. ft. That winter I ordered a brand new Troy Bilt Horse from the factory and have enjoyed gardening ever since. I run rows east-west, north-south, doesn't seem to matter much. Full sun helps a lot, and no trees nearby. Tree roots can run a long distance and zap nutrients from your veggies. Keep up with cultivation and you will win the weed-grass battle, but they'll always be there. I don't water anything. Well water will keep things alive though, but plants don't thrive. We've had a couple drought's in the last 20 years and the crop is reduced for sure. Mother Nature usally does a good job.

Have fun!
Tom

bontai_Joe · Feb 16, 2009

You can come close to sterilizing your garden soil of weed seeds by covering it with a black plastic tarp. The black color absorbs heat from the sun, causing the seeds underneath to germinate, but when they sprout, there is no sunshine to sustain life and they die. Takes 3 or 4 weeks if you have the time.

KML · Feb 17, 2009

I'm with Joe,

The black plastic works well and doesn't introduce chemicals into the ground that the grass killers do. Also, herbacides don't kill weed seed, just the plants, so you will still have a reoccuring weed problem with them. Some weed seeds can remain viable for more than 50 years in the ground!

The black plastic is especially usefull in the early spring in areas that see freezing temps. It lets the sun heat up the ground enough during the day to cause the seeds to germinate but at night when the low temps come the sprouts freeze out.

You don't want to remove the topsoil, It's VERY hard to replace once gone. As far as tilling, if that's all you have it'll do but virgin ground should be worked a little deeper initially. A bottom (mouldboard) plow or chisel plow is good if you have access to one. The benefit of this is really dependant on the soil conditions where you live. If you already have relatively loose soil it will help a little but if you have very compacted soil (or "hardpan") like we have here in Indiana, it's really a must to get the soil to drain properly and allow roots to grow unrestricted.

Another thing to consider is grubs. If you have moles you have grubs. Grubs can destroy a garden fast and are dificult to combat immediatly. The best way I've found to get rid of them is to apply milky spore. It takes a few years for full effect but will then last for decades.

Enjoy your new garden!

2manyrocks · Feb 17, 2009

Would you break up the garden, put down plastic for 3-4 weeks and then plant by cutting holes in the plastic or just take it off?

Or is it suggested to put down the plastic for 3-4 weeks, take it off, plow, and then plant?

Is there a certain order that you suggest?

KML · Feb 18, 2009

If starting a new garden I would leave the groung undisturbed and put the plastic down for 3 or so weeks. Then remove it and prepare the bed. My reasoning is that the weed seed sitting near the surface is your target with the plastic, if you till first you will push them too deep to germinate and get killed, only to have them brought back to the surface to grow durring later tilling. You want to get as many as you can now.

There are some that leave the plastic down and cut holes to plant through it. Some folks swear by it but I've only tried it once and during the wet spells I had too much moisture retention and ended up removing it. I'm sure how well that method works will vary from garden to garden and season to season. I can only speak for the one time I tried it. Most winters I plant a cover crop of clover and hairy vetch but I didn't this year. I had cabbage and brocolli well into November so by the time the garden was done the ground was too wet for me to want to trudge through it to get it covered. My garden is only 40' x 120' so it's not that hard to do but I just didn't make the time to do it this fall.

As far as the order: This will, of course, vary by soil type but for the hard clay we have here I would:

1. Kill the grass by which ever methd you choose. This is also a good time to take soil samples. I recommend sending them too your local extention office as I've never had consistent results with the home kits. This will give you an idea of what, if any, ammendments you need to add in step 4.

2. Break the ground up as deep as you can. I use a sub-soiler.

3. Turn it with a plow and leave it for a few weeks.

4. Right before planting, till in all of the composted organic matter you can get your hands on and any ammendment your soil samples suggested you need.

5. Plant!

This is just how I do it. There are many ways to skin a cat! The first year my wife and I did the garden we just ran a borrowed tiller through the virgin ground twice and started planting!

I should point out that our garden is ALMOST 100% organic so we have to put a lot of time into our soil as we can't rely on chemical fertilizers to cover any deficiencies. YMMV