New Holland 1920 loader painfully slow

[dogbreath108]

Hey folks,
this one is for my neighbor. The picture is this... He has a New Holland 1920 4wd tractor with a Great Bend loader. Bought setup new from the dealer including the loader in 1999 (maybe 1998?). He uses the tractor for snow and some yard work and has about 150 hours on it. It's garage kept (heated).

The reason I'm spelling this out is that the tractor is actually in new condition, without any worn or defective parts. (he admited that he actually waxed it a few years back ) The thing is that the loader is PAINFULLY slow. A sore spot on his investment right from the begining. The great bend loader design has pretty long cylinders to fill, and it is very slow. Running the engine at rated speed all the time just for fair speed isn't comfortable. When he picked it up way back when at the dealership, the dealer told him that there was nothing wrong and there was nothing he could do. He had sold many of them and they were all the same and admitted how slow it was. If he waited a year or two back then, he would have gotten the same size tractor in TC series that has the 9+ gpm pump on it. The 1920 pump is rated at about 6 gpm. I looked in the parts listing to see if he could buy the stock pump for a TC and bolt it on, but it looks in the parts listing that there are other differences. Has anyone out there dealt with this problem?? He is willing to spend the money and I am happy to help him out (we have talked about it for years), and I know there must be someone out there already down this road... He doesn't want an external pump with a hydraulic box to fix the problem (this was my first suggestion about 6 years ago and actually, I wouldn't either). That little tractor is just too nice. Maybe someone out there traced out the model number of the 1920 pump and found the same unit available with a slightly higher gpm rating... I figured it was worth a post.

Thanks

Joe

 

[Soundguy]

Hmm.. if he doesn't want an external pump ( like a stinger or pto pump).. then that limits his choices.

Would he consider a belt driven engine mounted pump? Something he could fab brackets for and get a longer belt and add. Would still need a small resv. or he could get creative and use the tractor sump ( sme with a pto pump.. etc.. )

I have a couple tractors with laoders on internal hyds.. 4gpm. Yes. they are a tad slow.. but get the work done.

I had a 1920.. super nice tractor..

Post back.

Soundguy

 

[Wayne County Hose]

It does sound like an engineering snafu. But, before you go spending money on parts and guessing, I would want to confirm that the pump is too small. However, only way to do that is with a flow meter that costs almost as much as a new pump. So, what to do. I don't think that New Holland manufactures pumps. You could get a make and model # and see if you can install a larger gpm pump in it's place. That would be my starting point. Any other thoughts?

 

[JerryG]

Some dealers will order and install a loader with too large of cylinders so that the lift numbers will be better than the OEM. What they don't always tell the buyer is that the larger cylinders will also be slower. Do you know what the diameter of cylinders are on the loader?

 

[RickB]

Some dealers will order and install a loader with too large of cylinders so that the lift numbers will be better than the OEM. What they don't always tell the buyer is that the larger cylinders will also be slower. Do you know what the diameter of cylinders are on the loader?

That's undoubtedly part of the story. Some of the rest of the story is that Great Bend makes pretty darn good loaders when properly sized for a particular tractor. And the OEM loader choice for a middling to late production 1920 would have been the 7308 which is a borderline pitiful choice for a tractor the size and HP of a 1920. My suggestion would be to look into finding boom cylinders a quarter inch smaller in bore to speed up the cycle times without crippling lift capacity.

 

[shaley]

I guess you could flip the lift cylinders over and it will lift faster but it will have a reduced capacity. You can calculate how much change as the ratio of the piston area to the piston area minus the rod area. ie. 2" in piston and a 1" rod. A1 = 3.1 sq in A2 = 2.315 sq in. So, by flipping a 2 " cylinder with a 1" rod it will lift 75% less but 1.33 times faster. Something to think about if you have extra capacity.

 

[Soundguy]

Yall guys with big volume pumps must be spoiled. I re-read this thread again and am still thinking about my measely ole 4gpm setups!

Soundguy

 

[RickB]

I guess you could flip the lift cylinders over and it will lift faster but it will have a reduced capacity. You can calculate how much change as the ratio of the piston area to the piston area minus the rod area. ie. 2" in piston and a 1" rod. A1 = 3.1 sq in A2 = 2.315 sq in. So, by flipping a 2 " cylinder with a 1" rod it will lift 75% less but 1.33 times faster. Something to think about if you have extra capacity.

It doesn't work that way. Raising the loader boom requires the cylinder to extend regardless of which way the cylinder is pinned on.

 

[shaley]

It doesn't work that way. Raising the loader boom requires the cylinder to extend regardless of which way the cylinder is pinned on.

Oh yeah, I see, you still get a speed/power difference between extend and retract but it just wont work because the extend port has to always be the same. OK, Nevermind.

 

[dqdave1]

Could the cylinders be swapped for smaller cylinders for faster operation but with lower capacity?