New PT Design

   / New PT Design #1  

marrt

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
816
Location
Northern VA
Tractor
Power Trac 1845 and 425
The more I use my PT 425, the more I appreciate the elegance and simplicity of the design. This got me thinking (or fantasizing if you want) about designing the ultimate PT. Here are some preview specifications:

- Engine: Water Cooled Kubota Diesel. Air cooled engines run too hot in the summer in my opinion. Further, I just like diesels better (let’s not start that debate again…its personal preference) and I especially like Kubota diesels. Since we are fortunate that the best small diesel on the market (my opinion again) is also widely available for OEM applications, let’s use it. For a 400 size machine, I would think 30 HP would be perfect.

- Cooling: Improve It. I will put the engine radiator in the back with air blowing out the back (for extra propulsion of course :^) ). I will put both the oil cooler and the radiator together. However, I will design the sides of the engine cover to accept standard size home furnace filters (and close off the front of the engine compartment). These filters, on each side, will keep dust and debris out of the engine compartment where is now clogs radiators and causes problems. These filters are cheap and widely available.

- Hydraulic Reservoir: I will use the same reservoir for both the engine and hydraulics. This will radically extend the oil change interval and make good use of all that expensive oil.

- Seat: I will add a suspension seat (with cup holder for cold beverages). I want to be comfortable when I mow and the ride on small tractors is always too rough in my opinion. Suspension seats are widely available and I will design the tractor to accept one.

- Adjustable Bucket Angle: Ideally, I would like a self-leveling bucket. However, this may be difficult to design. At the very least, I want the ability to change the maximum angle of the bucket for dumping material. Unlike a Skid Steer, for example, the PT bucket on my 425 does not “turn all the way over” at its maximum angle. In other words, if what you are dumping is wet, a significant amount will stick to the bucket. The only way to get it off is to “shake” the bucket…which can’t be good for the tractor.

- Lift Height. I will connect the lift arms further back so that the arms could be extended and the maximum height of the bucket could be increased. I want to be able to dump material into a truck bed. I don’t do that often, but I want the ability just the same.

Those are some initial thoughts. With all the welding, engine, electrical, design, and engineering experience of the folks on this site, we could probably create the design. Then again, I may have already had too many Belgian beers tonight. Later.
 
   / New PT Design #2  
The only problem I have with your design is that the hydraulic oil cannot be used for engine oil because it would get contaminated real easy due to the combustion process.

Everything else sounds cool. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / New PT Design #3  
marrt,
I like your thoughts, keep those ideas coming.
PJ
 
   / New PT Design #4  
Power Trac already makes a 30 hp diesel tractor--the 1430. Personnally, I think oil cooled is as good or better than water cooled.

Based on postings by Charlie Iliff it does need improvements in cooling air flow filtering. However I would hope that PT would use the approach of other equipment manufacturers--easily cleanable screens or microperforated sheet metal for the engine compartment housing.
 
   / New PT Design #5  
I thought the power trac motors were all air cooled. The oil cooler is for the hydraulics, right?
 
   / New PT Design #6  
You are correct. The gas and diesels are both air cooled. And the oil cooler under the top of the hood on the 400 series is for the hydraulic cooler. There may be an engine oil cooler for the diesels, but I don't know.
 
   / New PT Design #7  
<font color=blue>I thought the power trac motors were all air cooled.</font color=blue>

The Duetz diesel engines used by PT are oil cooled. Unlike most water cooled engines, the radiator to cool the oil on the Duetz engines used by PT are integral to the engine.
 
   / New PT Design #8  
<font color=red>The Duetz diesel engines used by PT are oil cooled.</font color=red>

That's correct. The difference between oil cooled and air cooled is that there aren't cooling fins on the cylinders and heads designed for direct heat exchange with the cooling air. Air is pushed by a cooling fan at fairly high velocity through an oil cooler mounted on the side of the engine. Except when the oil cooler gets clogged, it works very well. John Coxon, Power Trac and I are all working on pre-filters to keep the oil cooler from clogging in high-chaff mowing, which is the only time there has been any problem. There is a thread a while back on the overheating.
 
   / New PT Design #9  
marrt,

My "ultimate" PT would be Bi-directional. When I was initially looking at tractors I did a lot of web surfing, and the most intriguing designs I saw were the bi-directional tractors like the or the Landini Discovery (which no longer appears on their web page). I like having the mower in front of me and, obviously, that's where the bucket and blade belong. But some implements, like my tiller or rake, work better or are more convenient to use if you're pulling them. I think if the front section of the 42x were a little longer, the seat and control section (i.e. steering and electrics) could be made on some sort of detachable arrangement with quick disconnects for the steering hydraulics and electical connections. You could then swap their positions and face the other direction while driving the tractor. The foot treadle could just have pedals at both ends because when you turn around, "forward" would still be under your right foot, etc. The hydraulic selector to raise/lower the arms and roll the quick-attach could either be mounted on the detachable control section or selectable between to separate control valves/levers. Obviously, there would be lots of details to engineer, but it might make for a nifty tractor (and I haven't even had any beers yet). A good related thread is glennmac's <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=off&Number=51950&fpart=1>Compact Tractors are Designed All Wrong.

I also think, at least on the 42x's, that the engine could sit a lot higher in the aft section. It might raise the CG a little, but there is plenty of vertical room under the engine cover and it would make maintenance a lot easier. It might improve cooling as well.

So at who's place are we going to build this "ultimate PT"?

Scott
 
   / New PT Design #10  
<font color=red>So at who's place are we going to build this "ultimate PT"?</font color=red>

How 'bout at PT's place? They'll never disclose what they're working on, but they are in the biusiness of designing and building neat stuff.
When I first read through your post, I thought it would be far too complex ever to be economically worthwhile. Now, having wasted a bit of time thinking about it, I'm not so sure. The basic PT platform starts out bidirectional in function. As you noted, all you have to do is turn the operator around.
A weird thought. If you've been to Tazewell, you've seen the mining equipment, where the operator sits sideways. How would that be for our uses? A whole new set of thought processes to plan each job, but bidirectional without moving controls.
Then, of course, is a swivel seat with complete fly-by-wire controls. We just need to borrow a set from a $100,000 Mercedes or BMW. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2024 Godwin CD100S Dri-Prime S/A Towable Dewatering Pump (A44571)
2024 Godwin CD100S...
2025 Wolverine SBM-12-72W Sickle Mower Attachment (A47484)
2025 Wolverine...
853H C SERIES BOBCAT SKID STEER (A43005)
853H C SERIES...
2020 GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab Pickup Truck (A44572)
2020 GMC Sierra...
2006 Club Car Villager 8-Seater Electric Transport Vehicle (A44572)
2006 Club Car...
Yamaha Dirt Bike (A47484)
Yamaha Dirt Bike...
 
Top