Newbie

[honeyb]

RM and DD,

What I meant was by the comparison was the truck that I had would not go good in the mud and also when out on the highway pulling a heavily load trailer it just did not have enough HP to do the job. Now the truck that I have now is the same model and style but has a V8 instead and has made all the difference in the world.

Now I have a friend who has a Toyota 4wd with a V6 that could out do my old truck (full size 4wd with V6), but he cannot out do the one I have now.

I have not had much experience with the 4wd tractors so I may not have made a fair comparison. I just assummed they were close to the same. I would the smaller tractors do a good job at what they do and I probable would buy a 4wd if I was going to buy one of the small compact tractors. But I am looking at buying the larger tractor with more HP and I just cannot afford the 4wd option and stay within my budget.

Believe me if I had the money I would buy a 4wd drive tractor in a heartbeat. I just would rather have the larger size tractor. I have also got to have the implements as I have only got a tiller.

 

[RanchMan]

If I had my choice, I would choose a higher HP tractor over a lower HP one if everything else were equal. Unfortunately, that's not really the case when comparing the 2wd 4500 and the 2wd 5500. While weight is similar, gearing, brakes, etc. aren't.

The 2wd 4500 will not be "underpowered" due to weight, but yes, the engine will work harder pulling the same size implement as a 2wd 5500 if an equivalent gear ratio can be found across the two tractors (accounting for differences in tire size). This is due to the resistance to being pulled a particular implement generates and not the weight of the tractor. In other words, if you have two identical tractors (same weight, transmission, tires, etc.) but different engines in each, and if they are pulling identical implements (say a harrow), the one with the lesser HP will work "harder" than the one with more, BUT, chances are BOTH will loose traction and be unable to pull long before they "run out" of available HP. Let’s look at an extreme and highly simplified example.

Tractor A & B are identical, just like I mentioned above, except for engine HP. Let’s say "A" has 40hp and "B" has 30hp. Now, let’s say it takes 15hp transmitted to the ground to pull a given implement. Now, let’s say that based on a given day’s field conditions, with the tires you are using, etc. both tractors (because they are identical) are capable of putting 30hp to the ground. In this scenario, "A" uses 37.5% (15/40) of its hp to pull the implement while "B" uses 50% (15/30). Tractor "B’s" engine works harder, but still pulls the implement.

Now, let’s take a magic wand and waive it around and make each tractor weigh much less than they originally did. Now, because each tractor weighs less, even with the same field conditions as above, each tractor can only transfer a maximum of 10hp to the ground to pull an implement. Both tractors try, but both tractors fail to pull the implement regardless of horsepower because they both are so light they can’t transfer the engine hp to the ground in the form of work. The result is that both tractors sit there and spin their wheels getting nowhere fast. Weight was needed and desired. More HP is good, but if it can’t be transmitted to the ground, it does nothing for you.

So yes, all else being equal, yes, more HP is a "good" thing, but it is just part of the equation. Weight is a positive variable in the same equation, not a negative one as has been suggested. You don't want more HP because your tractor weighs more, you want more HP to work the engine less while pulling a given size implement.

 

[honeyb]

RM, so if I understand you right the 4500 4wd should not run out of HP for what I would need it for. It would just run out of traction. So the 5500 would run out of traction before the 4500 would because it weighs less.

So my dad's Ford 3600 won't pull his 20X20 disc because he runs out of traction instead of HP is this correct. Let me ask you this the dealer said one of his customers had a Kubota 4wd tractor that would not pull a 20X20 disc. So the guy came in and traded for a 2wd Mahindra and it would pull it and not spin. I assume this is because of the weight diffrence as the Kubota was out 1500 pounds lighter.

There is still this thing called my budget I have to worry about. I guess I will just have to win the lottery and then I will be able to afford the 4wd. Does anyone on here the winning numbers for next weeks lottery, LOL.

RM, I noticed you have a 4110 why didn't you get a 4500 4wd as it weighs 1800 lbs more and has higher lifting capicity. Plus it has 1 more HP. They about the same in price too. ut I guess you have your reasons.

To keep within my budget and get some implements I can only afford about $13000 for the tractor, give or take a couple of hundred (not thousands). So to get a 4wd with the most hp for $13000 it seems I would need to look at the 3510. But it just looks way to small. I would definitly choose the 5500 over the 3510 for my situation.

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

I replied to your other thread but maybe I should have done it here.

For your requirements, 10acre hog'n, 1acre plowing + some foodplots you could do all that with a 25hp Ford 8N. The 4500/5500 will do it better and faster with more expencive implements. For what you are talking about I would really consider a 3510gear.

With most tractors and ground contacting impements you run out of traction long before you run out of power. For mowing, you will run out of power long before you run out of traction. Having said that, a 3510 should handle a 6ft hog and a 2 bottom plow well.

 

[RanchMan]

<font color="blue">the 4500 4wd should not run out of HP for what I would need it for. </font>

Correct - if you're pulling "reasonable" size implements in conducive conditions. More HP is desirable due to running the engine with less stress (lower % of total available HP) but no, you shouldn't "run out" of HP pulling things like a 6' disc based on what you've stated in this thread. I pull a 6.5 disc with my 4110. 4wd is required to effectively pull it based on my soil conditions, the tractor being "light", and the speed I like to go, but otherwise it works just fine.

<font color="blue">It would just run out of traction. So the 5500 would run out of traction before the 4500 would because it weighs less. </font>

All else being equal, yes. The variables in play are the contact patch of the tires and weight distribution of the tractors. I assume the 5500 tires are bigger, and more contact patch will generally increase your coefficient of friction which improves your traction. (friction is good when talking about tire/ground contact). But weight distribution is also important. If most of the weight is centered over your front tires, your rear tires will have a lower coefficient of friction, hence lower traction. (Think of a 2wd truck driving on ice vs. a car - chances are the car can out accelerate the truck due to having more weight over the rear axle.) If the 2wd 4500 has most of its weight centered over the front axle and with smaller tires, it could loose traction before the 5500 - but the opposite is also true - if the 5500 has little weight over the rear axle then it is possible it could loose traction before the 4500. The only "real" way to determine which would loose traction first is to have a "tractor pull." /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

<font color="blue">So my dad's Ford 3600 won't pull his 20X20 disc because he runs out of traction instead of HP is this correct. </font>

If the wheels are spinning but he's going nowhere, then yes, it's a traction issue. If the wheels aren't spinning and he's going nowhere (i.e. engine dies after releasing the clutch) then it's a HP issue. Again, the greater the % of the total available hp from the engine you use, the harder it is on the engine. Hence why more HP is "better" - all else being equal.

<font color="blue">RM, I noticed you have a 4110 why didn't you get a 4500 ...... I guess you have your reasons. </font>

Yes, I did have my reasons. There was the Daedong engine (same as the Kioti), Korean mfg. vs. Indian mfg., etc., but the main reason at the time is that even though Mahindra claims to have introduced their 4500 in 2001, even in early 2002 I had yet to see a 4500 4wd. You can't buy what you can't find.

<font color="blue">I would definitly choose the 5500 over the 3510 for my situation. </font>

I would too.

 

[DiskDoctr]

Honeyb,

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( There is still this thing called my budget I have to worry about. I guess I will just have to win the lottery and then I will be able to afford the 4wd. Does anyone on here the winning numbers for next weeks lottery, LOL. )</font>

I don't have next week's lottery numbers, but I could hook you up with last week's winning numbers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif That's about as good as finding out that the "perfect" tractor is out of your budget range, eh /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Seriously, though, there is a lot of good info posted above. You've probably digested it and even become a smarter, more educated consumer because of it. That's the most important part.

When you get to your dealer and make your decision, you will undoubtedly be armed with lots of info. In the end, do what you feel comfortable about and that is within your budget.

Oh, and HAVE FUN! Shopping for a new tractor should be fun, right? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-JC