NH 281 Baler timing ????

[newbee83]

Ok well I went to an auction this weekend and I came across a NH 281 baler I dont know much about this model but the price was rigth so I bought it. It had some old hay in it so I fired it up and ran about 6 bales through it to push the old stuff out and then all of a sudden I heard a loud bang and the sheer bolt was snapped. After searching around I noticed that the safety bar was in place , the one that locks in when the needles are stuck up in the air.....now Im clueless hoe to fix this I could use all the help I can get.Thank You guys your my lifesave thus far.

I looked at the needles in the back and they are stuck up through the notters and wont realease, what do I do to release these.

Also How do you go about timing this baler from scratch again?

How does this happen?Is it from pushing the old hay out ?

What do I need to look for as far as things broken?

I really need to fix this by weds at the latest thank you for all the help


PS I bought this because I havea 273 baler as well and this one looked bigger is it really bigger or not and which one is newer ? Which one should I keep (reliability , maintaining, effecientcy) Thank You

 

[BeeferMan]

could be a variety of things holding the needles up, but the best part is that the interlock did it's job and probably just the shear bolt broke, not something much more expensive.

So you need to figure out what's holding the needles up, could be something bent, twine hung up, the needle drive mechanism has fallen apart or is jammed, brake too tight, etc., etc. It shouldn't be too hard to figure that out.

Once you get that resolved, replace the shear bolt, make sure the needles are parked fully in the retracted position and turn it over by hand. If that goes ok, then trip the knotters while still turning it by hand. It may still be in time.

Hope that helps, but as you will read over and over here, when dealing with balers you really need to invest in a manual.

The 281 was manufactured from 1964-1966, the 273 1968-1977...

 

[newbee83]

Thanks beeferman I ordered a manual but it wont be here until Thursday. How much of a drag should be on the brake? everything else seemed to be ok but I didnt check the brake. If I put a good amount of pressure on the needles I can move them back and fourth about a 1/4" if that helps. Can I run the machine backwards by hand? Will that pull the needles down?

Is it worth me keeping this 281? Like I said before I have a 273 which is a bigger baler? 281 looks bigger but its older so Im lost thanks for the help

 

[BeeferMan]

I'm not familiar with the 281 in particular, but I'd disconnect the shaft that drives the needles (probably on the pickup side of the chute next to the knotters?), that will let you determine if the needles themselves are hung up on something in the knotters, or if it's the drive mechanism.

The brake should put enough friction on the needles so that they don't "bounce" back from the parked position. If you move the needles at all, it's probably not that. You can try turning it backwards, I'm not sure how far you'll get, but probably nothing to lose.

I'm betting that something hung up the drive mechanism - have you looked for any broken/missing chains?

Can't answer the question as to which one to keep, at the age of those balers it's going to come down to condition, I think. Maybe you should keep both...

 

[newbee83]

I saw this one and it seemed like it was bigger as it has upper and lower pickups for the hay. I bought it at the auction for 600 I dont know if that was a good deal or not.

Im am kinda new to the whole baler thing if I go reachinr around inside this thing where the needles are and it breaks free its not spring loaded where it will take my hand off is it ? THanks again

 

[BeeferMan]

No big springs to speak of, no. There are some heavy pieces though, so use common sense and don't get your fingers in tight spaces when there are moving parts involved.

Newbee - if you're mechanically inclined at all, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why something that should move, doesn't.

Have you tried replacing the shear bolt and turning to he PTO by hand? It may be that the needles are up and seem stuck just because they're in that part of the cycle. That doesn't answer the question as to why the shear bolt was sheared, but it might answer the "stuck needle" question...

These things are kinda hard to diagnose via email, you got to get in there and get your hands dirty...

 

[newbee83]

Ok so I got my hands dirty , I found 3 broken sheer bolts, one was on the chain on the right side of the baler which drives from the gear box to the sprokets that runs the needles, one on the sprocket that runs from the first chain to the sprockets and one on the flywheel, in theory if these broke it would have stopped everything and now that i replaced them all would it be put back in time ? or should I try and retime the whole baler again? Does anyon ehave any pictures where i can find the timing marks? Im lost trying to find them.Thanks

 

[BeeferMan]

Ok, good work, if you haven't pulled the hay out , I'd do that. And I wouldn't be afraid to try turning the baler over by hand, I suspect at this point that will retract the needles?

But timing it is where you're really going to have to use the new manual when it gets there. There are some generic timing marks on most of the NH's, one set to time the feeder to the plunger and the other to time the knotters/needles to the plunger. But you really need to make sure that you're doing it right for your baler, mistakes here can be frustrating at best, expensive at worst.

 

[newbee83]

what is the best way to get the hay out of the chamber?? I have a thrower on the back of it so it kinda makes it near impossible to get at the hay.Or do you mean in the feeder and plunger area?

 

[newbee83]

I was able to get the needles to go back to "home" position last night however this is where the troubling part lies , after returning the needles back to home position(i turned the gears backwards to reverse the operation) thats when i noticed the last sheer bolt broken. I had to turn the baler over by hand to get the gear to line back up to to put the new bolt in. Now in doing this would it have come out of time in your opinion or putting the bolt back in it would have times it again? Am i making sense?

 

[BeeferMan]

No, I mean cleaning the hay out of the chute. And there is no elegant way to do that with a thrower (I"m assuming you got a belt thrower), you just have to loosen up the adjusters, reach in a pull it out a flake at a time. You really only need to get the end of the plunger stoke area clear so you can clearly see the knotters, but the easiest way to that is to pull everything out.

 

[BeeferMan]

As said, I wouldn't be afraid to turn it over by hand once all the shear bolts are back in, but I wouldn't put power to it until you checked the timing by the book. No way of knowing of a chain slipped, for instance.

And while you're doing this, you need to keep in mind that you still don't know why all these shear bolts broke. Could be just hadn't been used in a while, old hay was packing too tightly, rusty shear bolts, could be something else. So my advice would be to go through the whole timing procedure making everything is operating freely and smoothly, all the while keeping your eye out for anything else that doesn't look quite right.

 

[newbee83]

Yes it is a belt thrower(not a big fan of them , seem like they throw the bales wayyyy to hard) but how can I check the timing if there is no hay feeding to trip the knotters? or can I trip in manually with out hurting anything? Thanks for a ll the help beeferman:thumbsup:

 

[BeeferMan]

Don't know which model thrower you have, but there's always a way to adjust the power of the thrower.

Yes, just trip the knotter manually...

Oh - and you're welcome!

 

[newbee83]

I will be cutting tonight, we have a good stretch of weather it seems :thumbsup: however I also still have my 273 baler, My last question is if I took my 273 i should be able to set it next to that baler and they would have a similar operation right? I want to try to get this fixed asap liek I said my manual wont be in for a couple more days. Ill be baling by then hopefully

 

[banjodunn]

G'day newbee if you have not had the drive chains off the baler then you should not be out of time the shear bolts will allow you to put everything back into place without upsetting the timing. Clear all the old hay out and wind the baler over by hand if all is ok with the plunger then trip the knotters by lifting the metering arm ( the arm that goes to the spiked wheel along the rear chamber), then continue to wind over by hand and watch as the needles enter the knotters ( make sure you have got all the old string out first and tie the loose ends off under the baler) they should feed the string into the knotters and tie off ( you will not get a full knot but it will be ready to tie the next one). Get someone to help you with this next part you need to trip the knotters again while winding over by hand, and as the needles enter the chamber the kneedle tips should be just inside the cutouts of the retreating plunger, as the needles come up carefully grab the loose strings by hand and hold them just tight and as the needles complete their cycle it will get harder to turn over as they tie the knot as they finish you should have two tied loops of string and the needles should return all the way to stop. Make sure your chains are nice and snug as a loose chain will alter timing. Just go slow by hand and be careful and you cannot do any damage. As a further note to any who read this and may find themselves in the same boat we always wind a machine over by hand before operating with any power source it can work out alot cheaper in the long run. BUT AS STATED BE CAREFUL WITH PUTTING YOUR HAND IN A MACHINE EVEN WHEN TURNING OVER BY HAND. Hope this helps .


Jon

 

[newbee83]

:thumbsup::thumbsup: I just wanted to say thanks for all the help! I was able to get the baler back in time last night and I ran it by hand it seemed good so I hooked it up to the tractor and baled 10 bales with no problems, wouldnt have been able to do it without you guys

 

[BeeferMan]

Nice work...

 

[newbee83]

Ok so I baled about 400 bales this past weekend, and two different time the baler didnt cut the twine i think ( i found the twine on the ground with three knots in it, it was about 8 ft long) and made the bales miss and blow all over the wagon What cause this? And is 6 misses in 300 bales alot? Or is that good for an old baler? Thanks again

It is a NH 281

 

[BeeferMan]

6 out of 300 or 400 is probably something you can live with, but it shouldn't really miss any, unless some thing really unusual happens.

I think you said you got a manual for that thing now? There should be a section on diagnosing knotter problems. You'll need to examine the bad knot(s) there are several different basic problems listed, figure out which problem you're having and read the causes and check out the solutions....