NH 310 Square Baler -- HELP !! PLEASE !!

[Dave5264]

Well my first atttempt to run the baler has met with a bit of a disaster, I really need help here.

Decided to run it and feed it some old hay, Just to ensure the knotters etc were working.

First bale cam out with no twine, second bale emerging was looking ok as it emerged. Once it got the the knotting cycle, BANG !!, the knotter shearbot and the flywheel shear bots broke.

Needle latch was triggered and the crank hit it, i think (safety feature to prtect the needles).

One knotter was bunged up with 3 lines of twine
Other knotter was empty

I have cleared them, however there are several issues as far as I can tell

1) One of the bill hooks is facing rearward and is open

2) the other bill hook is facing the left side and is closed

3) The needles are Up (but not fully) and I cant move them at all by pulling on the yoke

4)Cant figure out how to cycle the knotters, the knotter clutch etc just doesnt move by hand.

5)i put new shear bots in but Im guessing the whole thing is out of time now.

I have a manual, but like may of them it says things like "trip the knottters manually" but doesnt say how. or it says 'align the clutch pawl on the knotter with the knotter stop'...how, i can budge it.

6)If i rotate the baler by hand the crank rod hits the latch, it will shear the bolts again...thre has to be an easy way to re time this thing

what do I do ?


please help.

 

[sweettractors]

Gotta clean everything out first (string, hay) Can you find a manual online that will show you how to set the timing? Once set, Run it through by hand before turning on the tractor PTO to make sure it is right.. Ken Sweet

 

[zzvyb6]

I have a feeling that there are a few broken or bent parts in your knotter right now. The billhooks should be closed and both facing the same direction. What may have happened is that the wipers failed to scrape off the knots on the one side and they built up on the tongue. When the roller on the billhook tongue engaged the wiper arm to open it, it couldn't because it was wrapped with knots. This made the wiper arm mad and bent it or broke some teeth off the intermediate gear. That's why the one billhook is facing the wrong way. Its now disconnected from the gear timing.

 

[zzvyb6]

It probably would help to supply some background and some pictures. Do you know whether this piece has baled recently? Get it from an auction? Has it sat outside for a few years (snow and rain etc.) uncovered? Was it a 'spare' that's now missing some parts?

I'd start by removing all hay and twine. Use a leaf blower to clean out the chaff, mud, rust and dead animals from the throat, bale chamber and chute area. You really just want to see if you can get the plunger drive back in action. All by hand , I mean. Then you will need to compare the left and right side knotter frames to see what's out of place. Then put it back in place (home position), even if you have to disconnect chain, links, or brakes. There are quite a few springs in there which regulate latches, cam followers, plunger stops, twine tension and tucker finger return. Can't run it with even ONE missing.

You need to then be in position to trip the knotter drive by rolling the measuring wheel along until the drive cam engages. Then roll the flywheel very slowly in small increments (a few degrees at a time) until you can observe the intermediate gears start to rotate, the twine disks turn, the billhooks rotate, the tucker fingers swing out, the billhook tongues open and close, and the wiper arms and cutoff knives draw by the billhook feet. You can't do this with twine loaded because the bales will have no length.

Just start the repair process one task at a time and VERY SLOWLY.

Read the manual one word at a time until you have it memorized. Its not a novel, but a detective mystery. Miss one thought and you are gonna be in a heap of hurt.

 

[RickB]

Well my first atttempt to run the baler has met with a bit of a disaster, I really need help here.

Decided to run it and feed it some old hay, Just to ensure the knotters etc were working.

First bale cam out with no twine, second bale emerging was looking ok as it emerged. Once it got the the knotting cycle, BANG !!, the knotter shearbot and the flywheel shear bots broke.

Needle latch was triggered and the crank hit it, i think (safety feature to prtect the needles).

One knotter was bunged up with 3 lines of twine
Other knotter was empty

I have cleared them, however there are several issues as far as I can tell

1) One of the bill hooks is facing rearward and is open

2) the other bill hook is facing the left side and is closed

3) The needles are Up (but not fully) and I cant move them at all by pulling on the yoke

4)Cant figure out how to cycle the knotters, the knotter clutch etc just doesnt move by hand.

5)i put new shear bots in but Im guessing the whole thing is out of time now.

I have a manual, but like may of them it says things like "trip the knottters manually" but doesnt say how. or it says 'align the clutch pawl on the knotter with the knotter stop'...how, i can budge it.

6)If i rotate the baler by hand the crank rod hits the latch, it will shear the bolts again...thre has to be an easy way to re time this thing

what do I do ?


please help.

1. Determine why the billhooks are not pointing in the same direction. One of them has a broken drive pin that fastens the billhook to its pinion, or one of the billhook pinions is out of time with its cam gear. If a billhook pinion is out of time with the cam gear, excess knotter stack endplay is the usual culprit. Reverse the listed procedure for reducing knotter stack endplay so as to be able to retime the billhook and pinion. Reposition the billhook pinion, and adjust the knotter stack endplay to spec.

2. Rotate the knotter shaft until the needles and knotters are in the home position. Set the trip arm all the way down and knotter clutch pawl in the disengaged position. Then, and only then, check the flywheel to knotter timing.

Post back when you get that far.

 

[Dave5264]

Did some more looking....one of the billhook pinions is out of time with its cam gear, it was bound up on the cam gear. I unbolted that side and managed to swing it up, its free now but still out of time.

My operators manual doesn't list any procedure for end play adjustment that i can find...is there an online reference? does this involve full disassembly of the knotter mechanism ?

thanks Guys

Background. the Baler came form a Guy down the road, was used last summer, was kept in a drive shed.

thanks again for the advice

 

[sweettractors]

Did some more looking....one of the billhook pinions is out of time with its cam gear, it was bound up on the cam gear. I unbolted that side and managed to swing it up, its free now but still out of time.

My operators manual doesn't list any procedure for end play adjustment that i can find...is there an online reference? does this involve full disassembly of the knotter mechanism ?

thanks Guys

Background. the Baler came form a Guy down the road, was used last summer, was kept in a drive shed.

thanks again for the advice

I would give the "Guy down the road" a call. He may have been thru this before. Ken Sweet

 

[RickB]

My operators manual doesn't list any procedure for end play adjustment that i can find

If you have a New Holland operator's manual, knotter stack endplay is in there.
If you are going to be responsible for your baler's operation, you need to develop the patience and ability to find and understand the info in the manual. Read it again.

The other option is to rely on others to do the repairs.

 

[BryanM]

All sound advice. You might as well figure this out and reread the manual until it makes sense. Pictures and or video of the baler would help greatly.

If it makes you feel any better I went thru the same time of ordeal and got tons of help from this sight. And I can almost This is why everyone hear says reread and fully understand the manual.

By the way your 310 what year where they made and what kind of hp requirement does it need? Love too see a pic of it.

 

[Dave5264]

well, found the paragraph on end play. Followed the instructions, I added a shim to try to create some added play to move the bill hook pinion back, however in my zeal to create more play I added a washer/shim and tightened the bolt, but it sheared off. 15 min later after a Drill and thread extractr, the broken bolt has been removed. I then used a brass punch and moved the cam back far enough to move the pinion to the correct location....small success.

I was able to remove the end play thats required as I put it back together.

now, in my step by step validation of things, I find the Knife arm is bent (like zzvyb6 inticated) . It contacts the toe of the bill hook and doesnt sweep/wipe under it. It also doesnt have the required clearance once its fully swept thru its cycle (3/8 - 1/2 "). Operators manual says I can use a hammer or a pry bar to bend it to fit....anyone know just how much "pry" this will take ? I dont want to snap it off.. thanks



knotters

correct pinion position on left knotter

incorrect pinion position on right knotter

the end play i can create

the Baler

 

[RickB]

You have to get quite aggressive with knife arms. To the tune of a 30" prybar in association with a 3 lb hammer. I always get a kick out of a customer who doesn't quite understand that even new knife arms need adjustment. They are near $100 now, and often I have to go after them like a dented fender to get them adjusted properly. It is handy to have printed instructions with each new arm so customers can understand I'm not being crude.

I haven't ever broken a knife arm during the adjustment process. Somebody probably has, though.

I always lean towards the 1/2" clearance spec rather than the 3'/8" end of the range. Starts the knot sweep earlier in the cycle.

 

[Dave5264]

RickB, very helpful thanks a lot. I got it using a sledge hammer and a 36" PRY BAR combo.
I will go back and go for the 1/2 clearance as you suggest.

next questions (since im not starting this baler up under power until im sure....)

1) Timing. reading the manual, it references timing in 2 places. However, i believe there is a miss print in one as it references "Figure 43" and "timing marks C & D" needing to be within 1/4" of each other, but....Figure 43 has no C or D illustrration, nor timing marks noted. I suspect it should refer to Figure 44 and marks D and E which are on the knotter clutch (??)

my knotter clutch marks are off 3/8- 1/2" I'd say (with the Crank Rod vertical between the timing marks). I dont think the chain skiped a tooth on the knotter sprocket ( there is gunk between the teeth not occupied by a link) and not on the gearbox (still gunk on the tips of thos teeth). can the timing be thrown off when the knotter shear bolt breaks or only via the chain ? Am I best to take off the chain and move it a tooth.? I did cycle the baler by hand a few times, no obvious issues. I also looked at the needle position with respect to the plunger. as the needles enter the bale chamber they are not past the tips of the plunger extensions (like they should be by 1/4 to 3/4") instead there is a 1/4" gap between the plunger extension and the Needle tip ---- all this seems to point to timing being a bit out. If I align the 3 dots (see picture) that should ****** the needles just a wee bit (since the cam gear will be rolled back 1/2"), allowing the needles to enter slightly later....am I Right?

here you see the knotter gear no signs of a skipped chain if you look at the goop between the exposed teeth.

[/IMG]


2) Knotter - can I see it tie a knot by cycling by hand?. I threaded the baler, and cycled it once, it successfully threaded the knotters and cut the twine I tied to the frame. I went to cycle it again by hand, but stopped since it looked like it was going the thread the knotter again (?) , is it ok to cycle it again with out a hay bale in it?, will I be able to see the bill hooks operate and the knife arm wiper work ?

3) Needle alignment - the right side (knotter I had a problem with) needle rubs the twine disk slightly more than the left side, is it ok to pull/pry/bend it so its the same as the other? the left needle has just enough clearnace, doenst rub much at all. I see the section in the manual, however Im unclear if this adustment is just side to side or up and down as well (may be the up and down adjustment is acomplished via the cap screws on the yoke)?

sorry for all the questions, Im seeking re-assurance, im terrified to start this sucker up again and have it grenade on me (again )

 

[Dave5264]

Well, it seems the timing was OK despite the marks on the Knotter clutch being off a bit. As soon as I aligned them (1 tooth on the sproket), the Needle tip was 2" past the plunger extension -- way too far. I put it back to where it was and snugged up the chain.

needles - played with the alignement a bit and they no longer rub the knotter hard.

Cycled the baler by hand, threaded the knotters, stuffed a bunch of hay in the bale chute by hand to hold the twine (simulated bale) and cycled it again--- presto, 2 knots and clean cut of the twine.

Next step -- pto driven test

one final question remains before i put power to it...... the bolts that hold the knotters in place (ie you remove them to swing the knotters up) how tight should the be ? I didn't see reference in the manual, someone told be they shouldnt be tight since the knotters are supposed to float a bit (thats why there are slots and not holes in the brackets)....can someone confirm ?

 

[Cobra-R]

one final question remains before i put power to it...... the bolts that hold the knotters in place (ie you remove them to swing the knotters up) how tight should the be ? I didn't see reference in the manual, someone told be they shouldnt be tight since the knotters are supposed to float a bit (thats why there are slots and not holes in the brackets)....can someone confirm ?

That is correct, they should be loose. That baler originally came with just pins and spring clips that held the knotter down.

Brian

 

[RickB]

That is correct, they should be loose. That baler originally came with just pins and spring clips that held the knotter down.

Brian

If you use bolts and nuts, use self locking nuts. Losing the bolt and nut, or hairpin and clevis pin will result in any or all of the following: Broken billhook, knife arm, needle, and or knotter frame.

 

[Dave5264]

OK, got it thanks,=...will retrofit it/ replace...its got bolts with 2 nuts just now, not too reliable as the last nut barely threads on.

 

[Dave5264]

Well......It works !

ran it for a while yesterday (using old bales), the knotter I repaired worked great from the get go (im proud to say). the other one needed some tweaking as it wasnt knotting preoperly each time.

after playing with the settings for the bale density and length a bit, im ready for real hay (hopefully next weekend). by the time i got through yesterday the same 2 bales had been through about 5 times....it was geting pretty chopped up by the end.

I also learned Im switching brands for twine, the twine I just bought (same brand as what was in the baler when i got it) has way too much variability in the thinkness for my liking. Glad I only bought 2 spools to start with.

Thanks to the tips along the way folks

 

[Tony Casale]

i just bought a jd square baler and i already know almost everything about, 464 dollars in parts, but im guessing that your bill hooks need knew pins, and u might need new knives, to cut the twin, bc if your knifes are too dall, they will just pull the knott apart instead of cutting it, as for the twin probablem, u might not hv strung it right.