Noisy Hydro on tractor after split

[OldNick]

Hi. I recently bought a Hino N279 tractor with a FEL attached by the motor trader.

Some hours of use later I had to get the clutch replaced because the bellhousing was full of

water and the clutch seized. Nother story. Not happy.

I took the loader off myself, spilling maybe 100ml of Hydro fluid.

Having put the loader back together, I find that the FEl and the 3pl are very noisy and slow.

They _worse_ when I start cycling the rams. Slower and I reckon noisier.

I reckon I would have noticed if this was the way it was when I bought it.At "wake up" it takes

20 sec to fully lift rams at idle. Next one is 24 secs, next is 28 secs. More and more

hesitations.

Oil level in trannie is fine with all rams extended.

SO I assume an intake leak. Tomorrow I check.

Any other ideas? ANyone know the Hino?

Thanks for any help. AFter a clutch collpases I do not need this.

Nick

 

[mike48130]

Sounds like you have a leak on the suction side. Check for foaming oil in the tank. Probably a bad oring or seal or loos clamp. Maybe a bad hose end from removing and reinstalling. No idea on that tractor to tell you which one but need to trace all the lines.

 

[Leejohn]

Check all quick couplers.

 

[OldNick]

Hi guys. Thanks for the comebacks!

I will explain myself a little. Over the years I have dnoe a fair bit of this, but not now since many years ago. SO. Rusty but gradually awakening

I have thought it over and of course the loader is driven from the 3PL pump, which is immersed in trannie fluid. So no "inlets": As I said (although not clearly enough, I realise) I checked the oil level. and it is fine even all extended.

Guess I will just to use the beast for a couple hours and see what happens. Must have got more air in there than I realised when I broke the lines and then put the loader back on.

There are no quick couples, just good OF screw-in pressure joints.

I spoke to the machanic and he said he had to break no line except the power steering, which a completely different circuit.

I do have another question for discussion. When I took the loader off, I lost very little oil (50-100ml). I bought a coupler between spools inlet and spools outle lines to allow the tractor to be driven. Would it have improved matters if I had rejoined the spools to the lines _before_ I started putting he loader on? I had to manipulate the loader arms/rams a bit to line them up and of course that sucked air a couple of times. Trouble is, that would have connected the tractor to the loader while I was maneuvring it....nuisance.

Thanks again

Nick

 

[oldnslo]

Nick
Most pumps in these tractors have an inlet line with a screen on it. If this screen is plugged it will cause the pump to starve and be very noisy and your cylinders will also be slow and jerky. Running it like that will damage the pump.

 

[OldNick]

Ok. Hmmmm. I wondered about inlet constriction. I will run it for a couple of hours and see if it rids air. Then I have to look at clearing the filter. I assume that means diving into the trannie. If so I have been sold a POS. As I said, the bell housing was full of water.

My main hope was that it was not this bad until I broke the hydro system lines....

Nick

 

[mike48130]

It does not take long to get the air out. A few cycles will push 90% or more of the air out. You have a suction leak, a blockage or failing pump. The first 2 will cause the third as others have warned you.

The pump should be on the front so there needs to be lines to the trans sump. These should have been pulled to split the tractor. I would look there first.

Did you use anything to block the lines when you had it apart? Forget to remove a temporary dirt cap on a line?

 

[OldNick]

Thanks for all this guys.

Yeah the air should clear in a few passes. That was why I became worried when I tried to use it.

Yeah the pump is on the front and not as in my other farm tractors. Sorted that (at last . I checked the connection between the front and rear pasts of the infeed to the pump and tightened the clamps. I also loosened them and rotated the rubber hose to try to improve seal. In order to "seal" the deal I actually ran silicone around the rubber joiner.

No seals or caps left on there that I know of. On the loader in and out feeds, I used the plastic dust caps off the little bypass joiner that I bought. That was the only impediment I used and there was no way to put it back together with them on there.

The rubber pipework that I did has made quite an improvement. The hesitancy has 95% gone away but I still find the pump a little noisy under any load. I am going to look at the flanges on the inlet filter, as I found a tiny bit of Hydro fluid on one of them. I realise how little a leak it takes to makes noise in the pump. Once I have done that I have to consider whether it's the pump I guess.

One thing I do not know. I am aware that these 3PL - driven loaders are not up to industrial standards, but if I stall the loader on the Hino, say trying to dig hard dirt (which I realise is an abuse of the implement and not what it's meant for), it makes nowhere nearly as much difference to the engine as it does on my Massey 40 backhoe On the Massey, the engine really struggles if I stall the loader or backhoe hydraulically. Also, speeding up the engine makes less difference to no-load speed of operation of the loader ram. Are these a limitation of the system on the Hino (small pump; small 1/4" in and out to the loader main feed lines; less pressure setting at pressure release), or a sign that there is maybe bypass in the pump?

Again, I know the principles, not the tractor. I have not used an add-on loader on a small tractor before.

 

[OldNick]

Thanks for all this guys.

Yeah the air should clear in a few passes. That was why I became worried when I tried to use it.

Yeah the pump is on the front and not as in my other farm tractors. Sorted that (at last . I checked the connection between the front and rear pasts of the infeed to the pump and tightened the clamps. I also loosened them and rotated the rubber hose to try to improve seal. In order to "seal" the deal I actually ran silicone around the rubber joiner.

No seals or caps left on there that I know of. On the loader in and out feeds, I used the plastic dust caps off the little bypass joiner that I bought. That was the only impediment I used and there was no way to put it back together with them on there.

The rubber pipework that I did has made quite an improvement. The hesitancy has 95% gone away but I still find the pump a little noisy under any load. I am going to look at the flanges on the inlet filter, as I found a tiny bit of Hydro fluid on one of them. I realise how little a leak it takes to makes noise in the pump. Once I have done that I have to consider whether it's the pump I guess.

One thing I do not know. I am aware that these 3PL - driven loaders are not up to industrial standards, but if I stall the loader on the Hino, say trying to dig hard dirt (which I realise is an abuse of the implement and not what it's meant for), it makes nowhere nearly as much difference to the engine as it does on my Massey 40 backhoe On the Massey, the engine really struggles if I stall the loader or backhoe hydraulically. Also, speeding up the engine makes less difference to no-load speed of operation of the loader ram. Are these a limitation of the system on the Hino (small pump; small 1/4" in and out to the loader main feed lines; less pressure setting at pressure release), or a sign that there is maybe bypass in the pump?

Again, I know the principles, not the tractor. I have not used an add-on loader on a small tractor before.

 

[OldNick]

Just further. I am also going to check/replace the hydro filter on the inlet to the pump. All filters were new, as was hydro oil, which looks very clean.

Trouble is, in all this I cannot remember what the tractor was like before splitting. I know it was better then when I first posted, but not now. I only used it to load two trailer loads of blue metal, and a plough. I was busy at the time and under pressure and also had earplugs in. So I can't tell what was before and what is after.