NOT Owning/Operating

[JCA]

Moderators - I'd like to propose a new discussion forum: NOT Owning/Operating. This can be the first post.

If you frequent TBN as much I have the last couple of weeks, you'll know that I've been posting frequently, seeking tractor-buying advice and griping about how much they cost up here in New England. So far I just haven't been able to justify to myself the $18-19K I'll have in it by the time I've got all the implements I need.

So this morning I decided to see if I could do without one. Took my old F150 4x4 down the hill and into the woods. The slope is about 15 degrees, I'd say, and it's spring, and I'm in Maine. Loaded the bed up with farwood and tried to get back up.

Up here in Maine we don't have spring. We have "mud season." Right now, at my house, it's what you might call "late mud season;" the surface is dried out, but the ground is still wet.

Well, I got the truck back up. Ended up carrying about half the wood up by hand--what (not having a tractor) I should have done the first time. My lawn was never a thing of beauty, but now it has foot-deep ruts...a lot of 'em. There were times when it was touch-and-go as to whether I'd tumble down the hillside...probably wasn't ever all that close, but it FELT close.

Now, not being experienced, I can't really say how much better a 4WD tractor would have done. But my guess is I could have just pointed it uphill and went.

Now I know how I'll be spending my afternoon. I was gonna do my taxes, but now I'll have to spend it outside in the sun, re-grading my lawn (by hand).

Hope it's as beautiful where you are as it is here.

Jim /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[BigAl]

Hi Jim ,
Buying or renting a tractor when you need it ,is only a decision you can make . Yes! ,they are handy to have avalible 24/7 . When you can rent a tractor for $175 to $200 a day it adds to the equation . Most homeowners ,I would suspect put around 80 to 100 hours on there tractors a year .
It will take a long time to offset their purchase price . Does that make it worth buying ? That's up to you . I gladly pay for the convenience of having mine avalible all the time . Don't forget the maintance required to keep it up and running also . The advantage of a rental tractor is taking it back and letting the rental yard take care of all that . I would seriously sit down and decide how much you are going to use a tractor and for what kind of jobs . Mowing every two weeks is one thing , grading a road ,once or twice a year is something else.
I have actually finished everything I can do with my tractor here in California and really do not need one . The ranch I just bought in Idaho needs tractor work forever so guess where it is headed ? I figure with logging , snow removal, pastures to mow, and constant road grading it is a very wise investment . If not for that ,I would just rent one when I needed it .
One more thing , My old Kubota L2650 sold for more than I paid for it 5 years later . I did keep it in perfect condition and that makes a huge difference to the resale value . I expect to be able to do the same thing with my new Kioti DK45 TLB. Just take good care of them and they will take good care of you .
I also have a steep grade of about 25% going down to my lake ,that is very often muddy or soft ground . With R-4 tires I just kick down the diff. lock and let it crawl back up . No, it does not tear up the ground .
Just my two cents ,
Big Al

 

[Poncho]

JCA.... BidAl is right, mostly it's a matter of convenience. But there of other issues that come into play if you rent....you have to wait until the deliver, or you have to take time to go get it, possibly time off work etc. It sounds like you are looking at new tractors with the figures you're talking. You may want to seek a used one to start out with. Me.... I look at my tractor habit as a hobby thats useful around the house. My father-in-law has a huge deep sea cudy-cabin boat as a hobby.... the way I figure it, he's running about several hundred dollars per pound of fish /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MossRoad]

You might look into buying a larger used utility tractor, work like a nut for 1-2 years and get all the big jobs done, then sell it for what you bought it for and buy a smaller unit that will handle all the day to day chores.

 

[lablovers]

JCA,
Tough decision. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I personally am one who likes to own what I need and look for ways to justify it. When we built our last home, we rented tractors, trenchers, etc. Probably about 50% of the time it worked out, the other 50% it was a pain. Either equipment was not in proper working order, or broke down while working. This really screws up the schedule. I can probably pay for at least 1/2 of the rental cost with what we need for equipment in building the house. Maybe even more. Because we now have the tractor we have plans to do a lot more with the property. Also, I planned on hiring work done from a local tractor operator on our current home. I have saved about $500.00 that I would have paid him and that was money put toward my 3054.

I normally take good care of my equipment and if I did decide to sell, it should sell for a reasonable amount. Here in California, if you can find a decent tractor, especially if it has a BH, you better be the first guy there or it is gone. Most of the used equipment I saw was of dubious quality. Good equipment does not loose as much value as you would think. While tractor shopping I saw a brand new 8hp, Bear Cat Chipper/Shredder for $1,500.00. I bought one new 4 years ago and paid $825.00. Mine looks like it could still be on the showroom floor. Could sell it for more than I paid for it and it has been available when I needed it.

Bottom line don't ovelook the value of having it a tractor available when you want it. New or used it does not matter, which ever is best for your situation. A good tractor will last 20 plus years if you take good care of it. I was looking at a 30 year old Ford TLB on E-bay. It was in good condition but still 30 years old. The guy would not take less than 12,900.00. There is a point where th major depreciation has been spent.

 

[OkeeDon]

As we've been doing the site work to prepare for building, and thinking to the future needs while building, this subject has become a minor bone of contention between the CFO and me. I tend to do jobs in little hunks rather than working many hours at one thing, and I also tend to change my mind, and my designs, as I progress on a job. When I have a spontaneous idea, I like to have the equipment right there, when I need it, and perhaps for as short a time as that inspiration will require. Renting doesn't work well with spontaneity and short periods.

The CFO, on the other hand, correctly points out that I can't buy every piece of equipment I might need at some point on the job. She also knows me well enough, after nearly 40 years, to understand that no matter how much I promise to sell something when I'm done with it, thus recovering the costs and making it cheaper than rental, the truth is I get attached to my tools and can always think of an excuse to hand onto them. She correctly says that even 5 acres is not enough room to store all the equipment I would buy.

So, I'm trying, really hard, to see her point of view. On my recent water pipe project, I rented a trencher. It broke down about halfway through the first day, and I lost a couple of hours exchanging it for one that worked. On the other hand, I didn't lose half a day and a significant amount of $$$ repairing it, as I would have had to do if I owned it. On yet another hand, as soon as I returned it and started laying the pipe, I immediately came up with a couple of improvements I could have made quickly if the trencher was sitting there any time I wanted it.

So, it's an eternal, internal debate. I would rather own, but I have to bow to the CFO's wisdom that I can't own everything. The problem is deciding which is which, and when...

 

[Golfgar4]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It broke down about halfway through the first day, and I lost a couple of hours exchanging it for one that worked. On the other hand, I didn't lose half a day and a significant amount of $$$ repairing it, as I would have had to do if I owned it )</font>

Don,

I would add, however, that based on what I've gleaned from your various posts, that had you owned the machine, it wouldn't have broken down in the first place because you maintain your equipment so well. Obviously there is no guarantee that equipment someone owns and maintains won't break down. But I think the chances of that happening are greatly reduced.

I seem to be one of those "lucky" types that every time I rent some equipment, something is wrong with it, or it breaks down and the rental place doesn't have a replacement. It always takes me about five times longer to get the job than it really should because of those kinds of problems. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[rims421]

I would not hesitate to buy a machine if I were you.
Let me share my experiance with you.
I just sold my Mitsubishi MT210D that I had owned for about 7 years. I bought it used with a front end loader and Backhoe for $2800.
The machine was not in running condition and the 4wd did not work when I bought it.
I put a clutch assembly, did some welding on the bucket,
replaced the seat, and had one of the stabilizer pistons on the hoe replaced. I spent an additional $1200 for the repairs (did not fix 4wd). So now I am into it for $4000. I used this machine at my last house for more things that I can remember. It literally saved me thousands over the years. Now I bought a larger newer machine took the backhoe off the Mits. ( will use it with new machine) parked it out front of a freinds house and sold it in one day for $3600. At some point I think that the machine stops to depreciate and in my case begins to increase in value. If spending the "big bucks" is a concern try finding a used machine.
Just my opinion

 

[garyd]

Hello TBN
A reply to Jim, I would incourage you to look at a used tractor.
I am a new tractor owner, I have been around machinery and equipment all my life. I bought a grey market tractor (yanmar ym2000) it has a FEL rear scraper blade. I am into it about 3300. Last year I spent 850 on back hoe and equipment rental, this year I figured that would double as we are doing alot of building and cleaning. short story It was not hard for me to justify that cost. I looked at new of about the same tractor with mid mount mower FEL JD 14000. I stroked I could not aford that much. The parts for the yanmar are hard to come by I HAVE to be creative, alternator from schuckes same as 75 nissan PU, tach cable motorcycle shop same as suzuki other harder parts internet. oh yeah and alittle help from the nice /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif people hear a TBN
Good luck JIM.
God bless America

 

[normde2001]

I definitely recommend a used tractor, or something like a Jinma, (Nortrac, or whatever name they go by), especially if you are mechanically inclined. Of course, if you're not, I have doubts about the feasibility of tractor ownership at all. Repair costs after warranty can eat your lunch /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif, kind of like owning a race car and having to pay to have it fixed. Tractors work hard and things break.