Not sold in any stores...

AndyM · May 10, 2004

Honda FCX

It looks like these are still several years away to the general public. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Frustrated by high fuel prices, I'm starting to look at alternatives. I'm not big on buying foreign cars, but I've always thought Honda had some of the best engineers in the world. It would sure be nice if I could buy a brand new 1973 Honda Civic CVCC or 1984 Honda Civic CRX HF. I used to own a few of the old Honda 600's with the 600cc 2 cylinder air cooled engines (and 10 inch wheels), and wish I still had them.

Chevrolet is now selling its Daewoo-made Aveo, and I think it's a cute little car, but it only gets 27 city and 35 highway. For that kind of mileage, I might as well buy a used Taurus (20/27) for the same amount of money! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Why did Honda Civics and Datsun 210's in the late 1970's get 45 mpg with carburators, but it can't be done today with fuel injection and other modern technology? Or do they have it and choose not to use it?

The technology exists to make small fuel efficient cars today, but the manufacturers will not offer them, because they are making much more profit selling SUV's (I read that Ford makes over $10,000 on every Excursion they sell). They don't bother putting money into making GOOD small cars for a small minority of buyers when demand exists for their money-making gas guzzlers. Hopefully the pendulum swings the other way soon.

Bob_Skurka · May 10, 2004

The short sighted, and sad thing, for the American auto industry, is that while they focus on the short term high profit SUV market, their overall marketshare is slipping and the manufacturers are losing total share.

If they were smart, and there is no reason to believe they are, then they would take the profits from the SUVs and plug that profit into R&D to improve their automobile line up and the entire issue of fuel cells, alternative fuels, and fuel economy in general.

riptides · May 10, 2004

Ahhh.............

Ford is coming out with a hybrid SUV Escape.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cliff_Johns · May 10, 2004

( It would sure be nice if I could buy a brand new 1973 Honda Civic CVCC or 1984 Honda Civic CRX HF. I used to own a few of the old Honda 600's with the 600cc 2 cylinder air cooled engines (and 10 inch wheels), and wish I still had them. )

They couldn't be sold today because of saftey regulations and because they would not pass emission standards. Both these things make gas milage a bit worse.

I've often wondered if emissions are measured based on emissions per mile. This would be the only way that would make sense, but I don;t think that's how it's done.

Cliff

JimR · May 10, 2004

Let's face it. It's called GREED. The oil companies payoff the auto industry which pays off the politicians to keep the mileage regs. low on gas. As far as safety regulations go. We wouldn't need them if people would learn how to drive. I have never been in an accident with another vehicle that was caused by my driving. I have hit 3 vehicles that pulled out in front of me in the last 33 years. I have also been rear-ended on 3 occasions. Once while stopped for a school bus, once while stopped for a pedestrian and last but not least at a red light. The technology is there to build a high mileage car. Don't be surprised if you notice that it comes from Japan.

A happy Honda/Acura owner since 1986. Happy Chevy truck owner since 1990.

budman72 · May 10, 2004

I had a Datsun 210 back in the 70s that got 40 MPG on the highway, but took 15 minutes to get there and only if the AC wasn't running. I think the body was made of aluminum foil and the thing didn't weigh 1500 pounds coming out of a car wash.

The interesting thing is you don't see any of them around today, they're now just a pile of rust in a junk yard. They were designed during the oil crisis and built for one purpose - high MPG, not acceleration, not safety, not longevity.

People today want a little luxury and power, so that's what everyone builds. There aren't many cars built today for economy. Your best bet is probably a VW TDI, over 50 mpg if memory serves me, but don't expect to get 0 -60 in under 30 seconds!!

Bud

OkeeDon · May 10, 2004

We had 1981 and 1983 Toyota Starlets that got 39 mpg, a 1990 Suzuki Swift that got 44 mpg (it's the 4 cylinder version of the Geo Metro, which got 55 mpg), and a 1993 Ford Festiva that got as much as 48 mpg. All were 1300 cc 4 cylinder cars with fuel injection. They were all good performers and great handling cars; one of the Starlets became our first SCCA club racing car and was raced at places like Daytona and Sebring road courses. (pic attached)

The best and most reliable car we ever owned was the Festiva (built by Kia with a Mazda drivetrain). After 7 years and almost 200,000 miles, we sold it 4 years ago to our lawn service guy. He's still using it to pull a lawn service trailer, on the original clutch! We never had to make a mechanical repair other than brakes and a muffler; he put a CV joint in it about 2 years ago. We used it to make 1500 mile round trips to our North Carolina cabin, as well as my wife's daily driver.

The best part is, non of those cars cost over $6,000 new!

We can't find cars like that, today. The closest we could come for a decent price was a Ford Focus ZX3. We got a 2000 model new for just over $12,000; it gets about 31 mpg from the 2 liter Zetec engine. It now has about 80,000 miles, and after an early problem with a clutch cylinder, has been as reliable as the Festiva.

The hybrids and alternative fuel cars have a way to go. They aren't all that efficient for the price. And, the Honda FCX you mentioned weighs over 3700 pounds!

gws · May 10, 2004

We dont want little cars, we want big trucks that a fuel efficent. Honda started this during the 70 gas crisis. Make a littke civic that gets good gas millage. Now its a big as any american car. We dont want small, we want big and we want fuel economic.

Chechnya · May 10, 2004

( We dont want little cars, we want big trucks that a fuel efficent. Honda started this during the 70 gas crisis. Make a littke civic that gets good gas millage. Now its a big as any american car. We dont want small, we want big and we want fuel economic. )

thanks for speaking for the rest of us. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

AndyM · May 10, 2004

That's what you call progress there, Don...

How did the Geo Metro get 55 mpg 10 years ago, but the current Chevrolet Aveo, which is the same size, only gets 35 mpg?
Ahhh, progress! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I keep watching Ebay for Datsun 210's, Toyota Starlets, and Honda Civics that were owned by little old ladies. There was a 1976 Toyota Corolla station wagon on there a few months ago with 555 actual miles!