NX5010 Trouble with Safety Switches

[sierrakioti]

Not my first tractor or Kioti, but this NX5010 Cab (manual) is new (less than 50 hrs). Hopped in after a few days off of the tractor and found that the key would not engage the starter. Various troubleshooting has the issue nailed down to one of the safety relays not allowing for start.

- If I jump the starter solenoid and positive terminal, tractor starts and runs.
- I've tried jumping the safety wires at these points: behind the seat (seat safety), behind the clutch piston switch (clutch safety). No change. Brake and neutral safety I hear strong relay clicks, so have not jumped these two points.
- With the key on:
- when I put the primary gear selector in neutral I hear a relay click.
- when I put the brake on I hear a relay click.
- if I operate the clutch piston switch or depress clutch pedal, I don't hear a relay.
- if I bounce, stand up, or sit down on the seat, I don't hear a relay.
- both of the above are true whether I jump the two wires or leave them wired correctly

The clutch plunger switch wires go up to a pigtail fitting and then to some kind additional sealed 'something'. If I disconnect and reconnect the pigtail connector I get a lot of relay clicking... it seems this does more than just send the clutch safety signal.

Any ideas for further troubleshooting? I am in touch with the dealer, but am a distance away, and like to figure out how to chase these issues down myself.

Thanks all!

 

[Rebeldad1]

follow the wiring diagram. if you have been in touch with the dealer I am assuming you asked for them to send a diagram to you?

 

[AWSubie]

Based upon your initial description I’m not convinced that any of the safety switches are at fault yet, but if you are, then disregard this reply.

Have you completely tested the key switch? It has been problematic for some people. Here is the test procedure for the key switch:

 

[dusty3030]

Are the brake pedals locked together. My NX6010 has a switch on the tab that locks the two pedals together.

 

[sierrakioti]

Good suggestions! Yes, brake pedals are locked together and that switch looks to be aligned properly.

Very good suggestion on the ignition switch. Unfortunately, continuity checks out and it appear to work as designed.

 

[AWSubie]

Have you checked that the main PTO switch is not engaged?

Also have u tested the engine start relay? (Procedure below)

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Betcha it is something silly like a nuetral safety switch check the range and power shuttle by "rattling them" while the key is switched to start.

My Mercury remote control box on my pontoon has that issue.

 

[sierrakioti]

Appreciate the suggestions, especially AWSubie with the workshop manual scans. I've tested all of the above with no love. Dealer suspects that it is a faulty relay control box (inside 'driver side' rear interior fender panel), they've seen a few low hour tractors with this issue. They are sending a new one and I will swap it out.

I'll close the thread with an update it that sucker works!

 

[sierrakioti]

Closing out this thread:

Well, that was a lot of troubleshooting for simple fix: turns out the safety switch module was faulty. Dealer sent me a replacement safety switch module and a quick swap solved the problem immediately. This is the small black box on the 'driver' side fender panel behind the seat (on NX5010 Cab).

Dealer says they've had this issue on several lower hour tractors recently. The module looks slightly different with a color 'filler' resin the new one red, the old one black.

Thanks everyone for their help. I did get to learn more about the tractor and what to troubleshoot in the future around starting problems.

 

[dusty3030]

Well, my 2020 production NX6010 HST with 47 hours just started doing the exact same thing.
Checked all the safety switches, can't find any problems. Checked key switch with meter, checks out ok. Checked out battery with battery tester (load test) checks out fine. Checked the ground and positive terminals. Checked every harness I could find. With key set to on, I can start it with a jump wire to the starter relay and it runs fine and functions normally, just can't start with switch. I asked my dealer to order me the safety switch module under warranty. My module is dated February 2020 and has the black epoxy filler.

 

[justman777]

Safety switches are great....until they aren't. :smiley_aafz:

 

[dusty3030]

Based upon your initial description I知 not convinced that any of the safety switches are at fault yet, but if you are, then disregard this reply.

Have you completely tested the key switch? It has been problematic for some people. Here is the test procedure for the key switch:

View attachment 668061

Does anyone know how path of the circuit from the ST wire on the key switch to ultimately the starter? I wish I had a good schematic for this thing.

 

[AWSubie]

 

[dusty3030]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!
I wonder if the "starter motor inhibit" relay is the one that clicks when I turn switch to start.
When I turned to start I hear a relay click. It is one of the ones visible when you open the hood next to the slow blow main fuses. It has power to it when key is off. When key is on it completes the circuit and has power in and out. When I turn to start it clicks and opens the circuit killing the power out.

Interesting.

 

[dusty3030]

*****DISCLAIMER***** I don't advocate doing this. If you choose to do this you are doing at your own risk.
I jumped the negative terminal on the start relay to a frame ground. Starting problems for me are over.

When it would or would not start, the relay was getting the positive current from the ignition switch; however, what was missing when it would not start was the path to ground connection from the ECU. When mine is working the negative connection on the start relay was completed by the ECU like it was supposed to according to the diagram posted above. I kept a meter in the tractor all the time and checked when it was working and when it wasn't to figure out what exactly was going on with my tractor.
So far, no codes or other problems. If you do this, you will have bypassed all the safety switches so do so at your own peril.

I'm still waiting on a new safety module from my dealer. He has on order to swap out under warranty. He did confirm that his Kioti rep said they were having a problem with these.

 

[justman777]

Looks like you got it figured out! I'll keep that little trick in mind, because it could help with troubleshooting a safety switch issue.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Have you checked that the main PTO switch is not engaged?

Also have u tested the engine start relay? (Procedure below)

View attachment 668121

There we go: hunting down the no start, I know my starter switch is flakey since it failed continuity testing. However, your post got me going. I need this page you posted and the following two pages to diagnose the no-start relay-wise (I'll wait for the new start switch to come in). For those tagging along the page numbers are 12-56 to 12-58 (or for those printing, pp. 730-32).

Thank you!

BTW, it is snowing outside and I need to plow but I'm not going to try without an operating fuel heater.

 

[WRX]

One thing I miss about my old DK35 was the lack of all these safety switches, for the convenience, and simplicity. My new NS4710 is less likely to kill me but more likely to drive me crazy.

 

[SlackerHQ]

I am having similar issues on a 2020 NX6010c - The tractor would not start after being shut off. After checking most of the items in this post... I found I had blown the display/safety fuse - its a 10 amp fuse. Problem is, I keep blowing them. I cant find what is causing it to blow

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I am having similar issues on a 2020 NX6010c - The tractor would not start after being shut off. After checking most of the items in this post... I found I had blown the display/safety fuse - its a 10 amp fuse. Problem is, I keep blowing them. I cant find what is causing it to blowView attachment 729509

Something is rubbing in the harness or mouse damage. For giggles, have you tried swapping in a 10A circuit breaker fuse? https://amzn.to/32ozM4q

I use these things in winter when it is too much of a PITA due to weather conditions to properly diagnose the problem until spring.