Off grid?

   / Off grid? #1  

Tor Arne

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
325
Location
Norway
Tractor
Same Explorer 65, MF 135, MF 30, MF165, Volvo BM 55, Volvo BM 425, Volvo BM 2254, Terengmester skidder, Ford 3000, Fordson major, Derreng unknown model, IH B275, MAN 4R2, Gutbord sub compact.
Thinking about going off the grid. What equipment is needed, I thought, a combined system with solar panels and windmills? Are there any traps one can go in? I live near the Arctic Circle, so I'm in doubt in how much benefit I will have of the solar cells in the winter? The system must 220/230V. How should one wire the system so it is most effective?
All advice and input is appreciated.
 
   / Off grid? #2  
forskning.no > Lys framtid for solkraft i nord

The first things you need to know are the solar and wind resources at your location. Without this input, you really cannot design anything that is more than a guess. My guess for your location is that you would need good wind resources in the winter to make up for the low hours of daylight available to solar panels.

Second, how much power do you need? Can you delay using large power consuming items, or must it be available every day?

In the US we use NREL NREL: Renewable Resource Data Center - PVWatts information to get an estimated potential for solar insolation at a given location. There may be something similar for your area.

Reliable wind resource estimates are a bit more difficult to find and can vary considerably over small areas. Small wind turbines require good resources to be cost effective. People here tend to overestimate their wind resources. If you look at the manufacturer specifications for small turbines, to achieve their rated output requires a "windy" day.
 
   / Off grid? #3  
Given your stated location I think I would stay on grid if available. Producing electricity is a very expensive bucket for a home owner to jump into.
 
   / Off grid? #4  
I knew a guy that did that. His wife cooked on an LPG BBQ and they fired up the generator when she needed the clothes dryer or to charge up batteries. What's the point? If you have a job to pay for electricity or other fuel, it's your best (and cheapest) option.

Others. Well the next thing they do is go out and buy twice as many solar panels again. AND then a generator!
 
   / Off grid? #6  
Given your stated location I think I would stay on grid if available. Producing electricity is a very expensive bucket for a home owner to jump into.

At $227/month just for power line rent, Tor Arne is already in an expensive bucket. It makes sense to look at alternatives.
 
   / Off grid? #7  
To the OP, I agree with Dave1949, the first steps in designing an off grid system is identifying and evaluating your requirements. Then an evaluation of available sun at your location.
Whats going to be expensive in your system is needing 220 VAC. The PV panels produce DC power that is sent to a bank of batteries. The batteries then feed an inverter that gives you AC power. Typically only at 120VAC. You can get a split phase 120/240 inverter but they're a couple grand at least.
Then you need to look at your battery bank. That's what stores your power for when you have no sun. You'll need to know how many kW you need so that you can properly size your bank, panels and inverter.
There really is a lot to it but there's a ton of info out there on the interweb to help you design your own system.

As far as wind, it's just like solar, you have to evaluate the resources. Do you have good unobstructed wind? I would imagine your location is perfect for it. Just keep in mind installing and supporting a beefy tower is no joke. I picture your location as being wide open tundra (?). If so you can keep it lower to the ground. But the best wind is up high. Also try to keep your windmill as close as safely possible to your batteries. Long runs of DC have more loss than AC unless you go to real heavy and expensive wire.

I have learned recently that micro-inverters are the way to go now and may solve some of the issues. I don't know enough about them yet to comment.

I wouldn't be discouraged though. If you have to be off grid ( which it sounds like you are) you have to find a way to get power if the utility co. can't bring it to you or it's cost prohibitive. There are plenty of people who have done it and companies that specialize in it, so do your home work. The beauty of an off grid PV system is it's modular and expandable (what's the term? scalable?)

I have put together a small off-grid PV system at my camp. I won't get into detail here but it would cost appx $20000 to bring power in to me. It's cheaper for me to build a small solar array.
My needs aren't much since I don't live there full time, plus I supplement those by substituting LP where I can. Large loads like refrigeration and water heating are supplied by LP units. If I need to run power tools I crank up the genny or use cordless. Heat is by woodstove. The largest load is my soft-start deep 120 VAC well pump. It draws about 1300W at start up.
I may bite the bullet some day and bring in power. Who knows.


That's just a bit of the info I've learned in the past couple years of putting together a system. Hope that helps ya.
 
   / Off grid?
  • Thread Starter
#8  
At $227/month just for power line rent, Tor Arne is already in an expensive bucket. It makes sense to look at alternatives.

And there you have the reason, I pay more in rent for the network I use on power
What I need electricity to the light (everything is switched to led), dishwasher, washing machine and other small things. The challenge is welder that needs 220V 16A 3 ~ and the lathe with the same requirements. So I will probably never be 100% off the grid if I do not run a generator. I have a diesel generator on 4500W that can manage welder and lathe, but is impractical. I've Looked but can not find an inverter that supplies 3phase. I'm going to buy a kitchen stove that runs on propane next time so that is no problem
 
   / Off grid? #9  
I wish people would have some understanding of power when talking about such things.

Let's forget about everything but HEAT, DOMESTIC HOT & COLD WATER, and cooking. That's all that really matters! LEDs and CFLS arn't even part of the discussion.

Just some of my thoughts on the subject:

If you cut your own wood, that is about the worst paying use of your time if you have anything at all going for you.

I have a (best) friend that is in the Inverter business. Sells a few thousand a year to Utilites mostly. I have absolutely no faith in Inverters (especially newer, non transformer based units). I get many such units for free and throw them out or give them away. I have no use for them. I don't think much of the batteries either!

I think what society should best focus on, is energy conservation. Insulation and such things. Spending five thousand on a fancy high efficiency furnace and then incurring that again in a few short years for parts and service is just for suckers!

Just because someone has a business involved with "Green Energy" doesn't make it make sense, despite what they want you to believe.
 
   / Off grid? #10  
Finding inverters in Europe that will provide 220 volts is no problem. As mentioned, to truly be off-grid you need to evaluate your usage and available resources for your home and location. In many areas solar and wind are a nice complement as wind often peaks after sunset. Biggest issues are cost, ground area needed for a large solar array and possible codes for a wind turbine and lifespan. Lifespan is a cost issue on off-grid systems due to battery life. Generally under 10 years you need to replace the batteries, which is a significant cost. Also micro inverters are not really applicable for off-grid systems.

Do a good analysis and evaluation before you jump in.

paul
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

New Holland 3415 (A47307)
New Holland 3415...
Ez-Go Freedom SE (A47307)
Ez-Go Freedom SE...
2003 Chevrolet Express 1500 Cargo Van (A46683)
2003 Chevrolet...
John Deere 7130 (A47307)
John Deere 7130...
JM R60 Excavator Bucket (A47307)
JM R60 Excavator...
2022 Deere 331G (A47307)
2022 Deere 331G...
 
Top