Oil filter replacement

[icunurse42066]

Hi, I am new to the forum and I have a question. I own a cub cadet 50" cut with a 23 horse kholer motor. My local cub cadet store went ou of business and I was wondering if anyone knew what size car oil filter would fit my lawn mower? I prefer to use Fram filters. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[jones6780]

Try this link.
WIX Filters : Filter Look-Up

Once you have a P/N most places can cross ref to other brands. As for Fram filters.... Have you seen the insides of a Fram?

Russell

 

[3930dave]

Wix would be a good choice, basic Fram filters, not so much.

But hey, a new Fram would be better than leaving a really old filter in place - the OP and I are just trying to steer you towards some better choices, that are not much more money.

My favourite these days are Purolator, Pure One models. Xref listing below.

Filter Finder

Basic Purolator filters have a good rep too, if you are really counting pennies.

On my motorcycle, I had to do some reading on model specific sites to come up with an appropriate auto filter PN. The CCadet section on here may get you started with some leads, or maybe a Kohler specific site ?

Rgds, Dave.

 

[brokenot]

As for Fram filters.... Have you seen the insides of a Fram?

For what it's worth, Fram has more than one line of filters. And, any online "filter comparison" websites you've seen with the "cut-it-open-for-a-peek" evaluations, miss one important detail: Testing.

None of those websites offer up ANY test data, because they don't have any. The SAE on the other hand, tests filters to make sure they meet or exceed the specifications set by engine manufacturers.

Most of those sites also have disclaimers written by the "evaluators" themselves. They start out something like this: "I have no background or experience in this field...."

So no actual testing, and no experienced person involved in the "eyeball" evaluations either. Not a cheerleader for Fram or anything, but those sites have created more hoopla and hearsay than just about anything else mechanically-related that's ever been on the 'net. Everybody's seen 'em or heard about 'em from somebody else....

 

[3930dave]

I'm all for controlled accurate testing, believe me when I say that.

Lacking impartial lab tests, long term anecdotal data can be worth paying attention to.

In the past Fram acquired a rep for failing internal parts (ie. end caps), and questionable QC. Either at least some of this data is valid, or there is global conspiracy of Fram haters that have nothing better to do than make up failure/fault stories. This is the internet, so many alternate universes are possible ! (Yeah, I don't believe most of what is out there either :laughing: ).

Personally, I subscribe to the "where there is smoke there is fire" axiom. IF I had a Fram filter on one of my vehicles, AND it failed, THEN I would forever be p/o'd with myself, given all the anecdotes/urban legends/tea leaves I've sifted through re. Fram.

Somewhere, there may be an SAE report on failure rates on oil filters, by manufacturer and vehicle class. Now, that report would be interesting to read.

I am aware that Fram has multiple oil filter lines, that was the reason I said "basic" filter. I do understand how a engine can fail and destroy any filter, and potentially vice versa.

Any manufacturer can produce a problem part.

I had a lot of respect for Fleetguard, until I read an account from a fleet manager of a Fleetguard oil filter failing. Fleetguard not only paid for a replacement engine + labour to re/re, but they also supplied a replacement equivalent or better truck during the downtime.

After that, I had an even higher respect for Fleetguard. Not really surprised though, Penske has always run a class organization. A major corporation going out of their way to do beyond the right thing, when they easily could have just lawyered up - all too rare to see.

I'm not a rabid Fram hater, but given that there are many quality alternatives (even in Canada), I choose to spend my money on other brands.

Given the general level of non-maintenance out there, I was encouraging the person who started the thread to use Fram, as opposed to doing nothing. At the same time, I was encouraging them to do a bit of research into other brands, while also directing them to the Cub Cadet section and researching Kohler directly.

Further reading: BITOG.

2011 FRAM Training Videos - Bob Is The Oil Guy

I'm a metal guy.

Rgds, D.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Hi, I am new to the forum and I have a question. I own a cub cadet 50" cut with a 23 horse kholer motor. My local cub cadet store went ou of business and I was wondering if anyone knew what size car oil filter would fit my lawn mower? I prefer to use Fram filters. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Go to your local NAPA store. If they do not have the right one on hand they will get it in a day or two. I get all my filters for my BX25, Craftsman mowers, and Generac generator plus vehicles. Ask for their fleet discount or military discount (if elegible).

Ron

 

[MasseyWV]

I prefer to use Fram filters.

Fram oil filters cost me a newly rebuilt engine once, and after learning about their crappy design and construction, I decided to never use them again, for anything. Personally, I prefer Purolator oil filters and have had zero problems with them.

The following website compares the internal construction of various filter designs, and includes pictures of each. Note how Fram oil filters are the only brand to use cheap cardboard end caps, which says a lot about how well they're made.

LesabreT.com's Oil filter write up..

 

[Cpjlube]

Just thought I would throw in my two cents. Fram has been bought by Champ labs recently. There is currently a switch over to Champ's design. From what I'm seeing, the automotive Fram filters will be Champ filters painted like Fram filters. So those who disliked Fram in the past will be happy. Soon, Fram may exist only in name.

Chuck

 

[3930dave]

Always good to know the man behind the curtain.... didn't know the Champ name, but I certainly recognize their brands.

Champion Laboratories Inc.

That acquisition must be recent, Champ does not yet list Fram on their site. Makes sense for Champ, given their existing filter lines.

A buddy of mine uses Mopar in his shop; he's not a guy that would tolerate a shoddy filter offering.

Rgds, D.

 

[LD1]

Oil filter cross referencing is one of my BIGGEST pet pieves. There are SOOOO many filters out there that will ALL work for a single application but have different part #'s.

Things as simple as a filter being 1/10th of an inch longer...or 1/10th of an inch smaller in diameter.

When I get a filter for something, there are only 4 things I worry about.
1. Threads match
2. O-ring the right diameter
3. Drainback valve..yes or no?
4. Relief valve PSI

IF all of these thigns match, I like getting the LARGEST filter I can fit in there.

For example, if you have room, you can use a PH8A filter in place of a PH16. The 8A is the quart sized and the 16 is the pint sized.

As to brands, I like the fram XG filters. I have been running them for the last 10 years or so along with synthetic oil in everything I own. And 10k mile intervals on the autos. And 1/year on the mowers and 4-wheelers.

And I also have figured out that my ZTR with 25HP kohler takes the SAME filter as my Saturn SL....XG3614:thumbsup:

AND....my kawasaki prairie 700 4-wheeler takes the same filter as my wifes 08 nissan sentra....A XG7317:thumbsup: Makes it nice to stock up on oil and filters

 

[LD1]

Perfect example of what I was just saying.....

In that wix link gave by the first poster....they list two different filters

A wix 51056 and a 51348

Filters are the EXACT same with the exception that the 51348 is 3/4" taller.

SO...in the case of the OP, if his application calles for a 51056, but has pleanty of room, I'd go for the larger 51348:thumbsup:

And FYI, that 51348 crosses to a fram 3614...same as my saturn and mower. Allthough as I mentioned, I like the XG version

 

[clemsonfor]

Your filter is probly the same as my mower. Its a kohler 15hp. Its the same filter brigs uses, my 1997 saturn and our toyota highlander as well as may toyotas.

 

[brokenot]

Fram oil filters cost me a newly rebuilt engine once

How so? I'm just wondering because I read a similar story once, and the author said a Fram ruined his race engine because the filter internals came apart when his oil pump's pressure regulation valve/spring assembly stuck closed.

Once again, not a Fram cheerleader, but I've used lots of them myself without a single failure. Unless someone commenting here, (or elsewhere on the 'net), works at a Jiffy Lube facility, I really doubt if they go through the number of filters we go through. We don't buy Fram "specifically", but we do use them. Several customers that rent our equipment have made comments over the years warning of the Fram failures that will certainly occur, (because that's what they heard), but we're still waiting.

As with many, (most?), "failure analysis" processes done, the suspected, immediate, point-your-finger-at-it "cause" of the problem.....isn't really the cause at all.

That's likely why those "comparison" sites are so successful, get so many hits, and their posted "results" are so often repeated. Someone reads 'em, feels like they're onto some big secret, and wants to spread the word around. It's just easier than doing any real digging. Read the "LeSabreT" one someone else linked to right here in this thread. See any data? Anything look remotely laboratory-like or professional? Any testing apparatus present in the photos or testing methodology detailed?

Nope.

Typical.

And yet it will continue to be linked to and referred to as long as it exists out there in cyberspace....

 

[MasseyWV]

How so? I'm just wondering because I read a similar story once, and the author said a Fram ruined his race engine because the filter internals came apart when his oil pump's pressure regulation valve/spring assembly stuck closed.

The Fram oil filter had came apart internally, thus blocking the flow of oil. This was confirmed by removing and disassembling the engine which had failed, only to find that it had been completely starved of oil because of the oil filter.

The oil filter assembly and oil galleys were also checked, and found to be working perfectly. It was the oil filter, no doubt about it. Final confirmation was obtained after the oil filter was cut open for inspection.

 

[JDgreen227]

Before I purchased my Deere 4210, I owned a 318, and was griping about the high cost of oil filters to a neighbor who owned an Ingersoll (Case) with the same basic Onan engine. He showed me a Fram filter that he claimed was a low cost, direct fit replacement for the Deere filter, but I never tried to use one. And this was back about 1990 when Fram had a much better reputation than they do today. I have not used a Fram filter in ANYTHING for at least 16 years now. IMO they are only in business because most people don't know much about filters, and they think when they are at Wally World "Oh look at all these Fram filters, they MUST be a good one because there are so many on display".

For me, Pure One, K&N, or Wix. PERIOD.

 

[clemsonfor]

I use purolator. Maybe a bit biased because of the internet hype, but i have run them for thousands of miles cause of the ease of them at walmart and the grippy coating. Now a days after reading the fram stories etc, i looked in them and saw the plastic thingy, pressure releif thing and thought the purorlators are metal, ill keep using them.

The crazy think like some have said here is that at walmart the FL1A motorcraft filter is either the same price or like $0.25 more than the PH8a fram filter. I get the motorcraft filter when im there for one. But mostly i get my oil and filters on sale at Advance when they have a sale and i pick up the purolator filter when i get a special deal. I will stock up at one time, and because 2 of my vehicles take the same filer (the 2 most driven ones ) i can use them interchanibly. I do run the Pure One on the TOY, but on the Saturn and ford i will use the regular Purolator filter or use a carquest filter which is rebranded Wix.

 

[mjw357]

I have a Cub Cadet LTX1050VT with a 24hp Briggs. Uses B&S filter BS-696854, I am using Motorcraft FL400S. About an inch taller, which is not a problem just sticks out a little more.

 

[brokenot]

IMO they are only in business because most people don't know much about filters, and they think when they are at Wally World "Oh look at all these Fram filters, they MUST be a good one because there are so many on display".

Sounds plausible, until you consider that with ALL of those filters stocked and on display....the stores MUST be moving them. And if that many are being sold, there would be horror stories aplenty from consumers if failures were occurring. We wouldn't need to rely on the "information" being circulated by the oil filter "evaluation" websites and all of the hearsay they generate. All we'd have to do is turn on the news or hop on the 'net and hear/read the stories, cases, lawsuits, etc. on a nearly daily basis.

I know a lot about filters. I also know a lot about failure analysis and the value of proper testing procedures. The guys that author the comparison sites are relying strictly on seat-of-the-pants eyeballing. They don't TEST anything. They also admit they don't really "know" anything. Their disclaimers on those sites often go completely unnoticed or ignored by the people that keep recirculating the "information". Why?

It doesn't matter to me what anyone uses....I have no stake in this. It DOES matter to me when "junk science" is treated as if it deserves any credibility....and continues to be recirculated. Vote with your wallet and buy what you want to buy. But DON'T base ANY purchasing decision(s) on incomplete info like those oil filter sites have.

What else do we "eyeball" to evaluate when testing methods and machinery exists to give us accurate, repeatable, and consistent results for us to compare?

Visit an SAE site and see what's actually done to ensure that approved filters meet or exceed the specifications engine manufacturers set forth. Then compare those methods and data obtained to what the "hacksaw and tape measure" guys think is adequate and appropriate....

 

[JDgreen227]

Sounds plausible, until you consider that with ALL of those filters stocked and on display....the stores MUST be moving them. And if that many are being sold, there would be horror stories aplenty from consumers if failures were occurring. We wouldn't need to rely on the "information" being circulated by the oil filter "evaluation" websites and all of the hearsay they generate. All we'd have to do is turn on the news or hop on the 'net and hear/read the stories, cases, lawsuits, etc. on a nearly daily basis.

I know a lot about filters. I also know a lot about failure analysis and the value of proper testing procedures. The guys that author the comparison sites are relying strictly on seat-of-the-pants eyeballing. They don't TEST anything. They also admit they don't really "know" anything. Their disclaimers on those sites often go completely unnoticed or ignored by the people that keep recirculating the "information". Why?

It doesn't matter to me what anyone uses....I have no stake in this. It DOES matter to me when "junk science" is treated as if it deserves any credibility....and continues to be recirculated. Vote with your wallet and buy what you want to buy. But DON'T base ANY purchasing decision(s) on incomplete info like those oil filter sites have.

What else do we "eyeball" to evaluate when testing methods and machinery exists to give us accurate, repeatable, and consistent results for us to compare?

Visit an SAE site and see what's actually done to ensure that approved filters meet or exceed the specifications engine manufacturers set forth. Then compare those methods and data obtained to what the "hacksaw and tape measure" guys think is adequate and appropriate....

Excellent post on your part. As for me, when I observed Fram filters becoming more cheap looking externally I began wondering what they looked like internally and quit buying them. That was long before I even saw my first internet "oil filter comparison". When AC/Delco discontinued the larger filter they formerly had for my GMC 6.0 and substituted the much smaller model, I quit buying them and began using K&N filters.

 

[murphy1244]

Sounds plausible, until you consider that with ALL of those filters stocked and on display....the stores MUST be moving them. And if that many are being sold, there would be horror stories aplenty from consumers if failures were occurring. We wouldn't need to rely on the "information" being circulated by the oil filter "evaluation" websites and all of the hearsay they generate. All we'd have to do is turn on the news or hop on the 'net and hear/read the stories, cases, lawsuits, etc. on a nearly daily basis.

I know a lot about filters. I also know a lot about failure analysis and the value of proper testing procedures. The guys that author the comparison sites are relying strictly on seat-of-the-pants eyeballing. They don't TEST anything. They also admit they don't really "know" anything. Their disclaimers on those sites often go completely unnoticed or ignored by the people that keep recirculating the "information". Why?

It doesn't matter to me what anyone uses....I have no stake in this. It DOES matter to me when "junk science" is treated as if it deserves any credibility....and continues to be recirculated. Vote with your wallet and buy what you want to buy. But DON'T base ANY purchasing decision(s) on incomplete info like those oil filter sites have.

What else do we "eyeball" to evaluate when testing methods and machinery exists to give us accurate, repeatable, and consistent results for us to compare?

Visit an SAE site and see what's actually done to ensure that approved filters meet or exceed the specifications engine manufacturers set forth. Then compare those methods and data obtained to what the "hacksaw and tape measure" guys think is adequate and appropriate....

The test site posted was just showing a build comparison not a test site.