Performance Mods
- Thread starter Gunner308
- Start date
- Views: 12198
RoyJackson
Rest in Peace
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2001
- Messages
- 23,144
- Location
- Bethel, Vermont
- Tractor
- John Deere 4052R Cab,, Deere 855D UTV, Z920A Zero Turn Mower and assorted implements
About the only thing one can do to a diesel without extensive internal modification is tweak the injection pump to provide more fuel.
That's not something an inexperienced person wants to do.
Turbochargers would probably require new pistons (lower compression) and an injection pump calibrated for the turbo.
However, you must remember that turbo engines produce less power (then a normally aspirated engine of the same displacement) when they're off boost.
Of course, you could bore out the engine for bigger pistons. Again, you're looking at a tweaked or modified injection pump as well.
Just remember what the hotrodders say " <font color="red">Speed is money...how fast do you want to go? </font>"
That's not something an inexperienced person wants to do.
Turbochargers would probably require new pistons (lower compression) and an injection pump calibrated for the turbo.
However, you must remember that turbo engines produce less power (then a normally aspirated engine of the same displacement) when they're off boost.
Of course, you could bore out the engine for bigger pistons. Again, you're looking at a tweaked or modified injection pump as well.
Just remember what the hotrodders say " <font color="red">Speed is money...how fast do you want to go? </font>"
BigGary
Bronze Member
Gunner,
I must differ with brother Roy.
I have a super Duty ford that is putting out more power than factory simply by chainging the restrictive exhaust and intake air. this has a hugh effect on deisel performance. You can feel it in the seat of your pants!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I also added a three position programmer for the onboard computer, but that is another thing altogether.
I feel a free flow exhaust and as you said a K&N filter would produce a gain that WOULD show on a dyno. What you would feel in the seat I have no idea.
I must differ with brother Roy.
I have a super Duty ford that is putting out more power than factory simply by chainging the restrictive exhaust and intake air. this has a hugh effect on deisel performance. You can feel it in the seat of your pants!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I also added a three position programmer for the onboard computer, but that is another thing altogether.
I feel a free flow exhaust and as you said a K&N filter would produce a gain that WOULD show on a dyno. What you would feel in the seat I have no idea.
Although I'm new to this forum, I think you need to keep in mind the "needed" power verus power gains. When you have an application that you are drawing every last bit of power out of an engine, mods like exhaust and intake can make a difference. I think MOST of the time we don't use all the power our tractors have, and the times we need peak power are not that common. If you have an application where you feel your engine is lacking, maybe an intake or exhaust mod might help, BUT, I personally would not want to take the risk of goofing up either reliablilty or durability for the sake of a few horsepower that I might only need once in a blue moon...
Just my two cents worth....
Todd
Just my two cents worth....
Todd
BigGary
Bronze Member
The man asked for suggestions on how to make more power I won't tell him he dosn't need it.
It will be his decision as to the cost gain equasion.
People spend thousands every day to gain HP in cars that THEY feel that they need/want. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
It will be his decision as to the cost gain equasion.
People spend thousands every day to gain HP in cars that THEY feel that they need/want. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
SkyPup
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2003
- Messages
- 3,079
- Location
- North Central, Florida
- Tractor
- Kubota L-39 GST TLB, Kubota L3130GST, Massey 1030 HST, Kubota ZD-21 ProDecK, Two Euro VW TDIs
The simplest way to increase torque and horsepower is to increase the injector orifice diameter, giving a larger dose of fuel per injection event all within the required crank angle window.
Generally custom chips just increase the injection window by a couple degrees crank angle, which rasies the combustion temperature significantly since there is not as much time for proper combustion and some of the burning fuel exits the exhaust valve.
The great thing about a turbocharger is it effectively DOUBLES the displacement of your turbodiesel and the only time the turbo is utilized is when the engine is under load, ie when you are using it to produce major power.
A naturally aspirated diesel engine will not significantly get more power from a less restrictive air intake or exhaust because it is already buring all the fuel that is injected into the combustion chamber to begin with, these kinds of things are only important when you increase the fueling into the combustion chamber, then you need more air in and more exhaust out. The quickest way to accomplish that is via turbocharging.
Generally custom chips just increase the injection window by a couple degrees crank angle, which rasies the combustion temperature significantly since there is not as much time for proper combustion and some of the burning fuel exits the exhaust valve.
The great thing about a turbocharger is it effectively DOUBLES the displacement of your turbodiesel and the only time the turbo is utilized is when the engine is under load, ie when you are using it to produce major power.
A naturally aspirated diesel engine will not significantly get more power from a less restrictive air intake or exhaust because it is already buring all the fuel that is injected into the combustion chamber to begin with, these kinds of things are only important when you increase the fueling into the combustion chamber, then you need more air in and more exhaust out. The quickest way to accomplish that is via turbocharging.
BigGary
Bronze Member
PUP,
Gunner asked for a mod for a JD tractor. In his profile he dosn't list what tractor he has and has not said what tractor he intends to modify. my JD has a turbo as does my Ford.
I feel the only way to really feel power is with cubic inches and more specificly stroke when the engine is under maximum load. The programer I use tells the installer not to use the maximum power setting of +125 HP /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif if #6000lbs is to be towed and the reason is the heat that you mention. An exhaust temp gage is a must if you start pushing the engine towing or pulling in the case of a tractor so a temp of less that 1000 Deg. can be maintained at the turbo.
Gunner asked for a mod for a JD tractor. In his profile he dosn't list what tractor he has and has not said what tractor he intends to modify. my JD has a turbo as does my Ford.
I feel the only way to really feel power is with cubic inches and more specificly stroke when the engine is under maximum load. The programer I use tells the installer not to use the maximum power setting of +125 HP /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif if #6000lbs is to be towed and the reason is the heat that you mention. An exhaust temp gage is a must if you start pushing the engine towing or pulling in the case of a tractor so a temp of less that 1000 Deg. can be maintained at the turbo.
SkyPup
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2003
- Messages
- 3,079
- Location
- North Central, Florida
- Tractor
- Kubota L-39 GST TLB, Kubota L3130GST, Massey 1030 HST, Kubota ZD-21 ProDecK, Two Euro VW TDIs
I have two Volkswagen TDI turbodiesel passenger cars that are 121 cubic inches (1.9 liters) four cylinder direct injection with Garrett VNT-15 turbochargers and Bosch VE37 rotary distributor injection pump.
Originally they were 90HP and 155 pounds of torque.
After simple additon of European injector nozzles with larger orifices (150 microns to 205 microns) to increase the fueling and increasing turbocompressor boost from 13psi to 18psi to accomodate the increased fueling, the power output is now 150HP and 275 pounds of torque. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The torque max is at 1,800 rpm, and I love it when the tach pasess that point! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You can easily do the same thing with any diesel tractor.
BTW, the same engines without the turbocharger are 66HP with 90 pounds of torque, so you can easily see what a decent turbocompressor is capable of...... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Originally they were 90HP and 155 pounds of torque.
After simple additon of European injector nozzles with larger orifices (150 microns to 205 microns) to increase the fueling and increasing turbocompressor boost from 13psi to 18psi to accomodate the increased fueling, the power output is now 150HP and 275 pounds of torque. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The torque max is at 1,800 rpm, and I love it when the tach pasess that point! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You can easily do the same thing with any diesel tractor.
BTW, the same engines without the turbocharger are 66HP with 90 pounds of torque, so you can easily see what a decent turbocompressor is capable of...... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
JDgreen227
Super Member
"I feel the only way to really feel power is with cubic inches".
Well, as the owner of one of those so called "underpowered" 4210's I usually run out of traction before I need more power,
but if someone wants more ponies that is their business.
While looking through my JD brochure I noticed that the 4410 has 3 gross hp. more than the 4310, and the engine sizes are identical. The 4610 has the same 121.7 cid as the 4510 but develops 5 gross hp. more.
Wouldn't it make more sense to gain additional power by making external modifications if possible, while retaining the basic internal engine? I've wondered a few times why Deere has two power ratings for the same size engine, and what the differences are.
Compression ratio? Injector pump? Does anyone know?
Well, as the owner of one of those so called "underpowered" 4210's I usually run out of traction before I need more power,
but if someone wants more ponies that is their business.
While looking through my JD brochure I noticed that the 4410 has 3 gross hp. more than the 4310, and the engine sizes are identical. The 4610 has the same 121.7 cid as the 4510 but develops 5 gross hp. more.
Wouldn't it make more sense to gain additional power by making external modifications if possible, while retaining the basic internal engine? I've wondered a few times why Deere has two power ratings for the same size engine, and what the differences are.
Compression ratio? Injector pump? Does anyone know?
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( While looking through my JD brochure I noticed that the 4410 has 3 gross hp. more than the 4310, and the engine sizes are identical. )</font>
The brochure (brown cover, "The Tractor Redefined") does list the 4310 & 4410 as having the same engine size (91.3 cu. in., 1.5L). However the service manual lists the 4310 having a Yanmar 3TNE84 engine @ 91.3 cu. in, 1.496L and the 4410 having a Yanmar 3TNE88 engine @ 100.2 cu. in., 1.642L.
I think the extra 3 HP comes from the additional 9 cu. in.
The brochure (brown cover, "The Tractor Redefined") does list the 4310 & 4410 as having the same engine size (91.3 cu. in., 1.5L). However the service manual lists the 4310 having a Yanmar 3TNE84 engine @ 91.3 cu. in, 1.496L and the 4410 having a Yanmar 3TNE88 engine @ 100.2 cu. in., 1.642L.
I think the extra 3 HP comes from the additional 9 cu. in.
