Performance question on 4010

[trafford69]

I have a 2003 4010 tractor with 54" mowing deck. When mowing the lawn, the tractor will bog down when turning and the deck will leave uncut areas of grass. I mow at full throttle and the deck is set up to leave the grass 3" high. I had a 18hp Cub Cadet garden tractor previously and it would mow through 3' high weeds without slowing down and without bogging down. Am I doing something wrong?

I see that the hydraulics on this tractor are weaker than the 4110. Could that be the problem? Would it be practical to replace the hydraulic system with one like the 4110? Help me out please, this is my first real tractor. I appreciate any advice.

I also have a front hydraulic blade and a FEL that I use quite a bit. I've moved over 100-ton of gravel and about 60-ton of soil so far.

 

[keeney]

It is possible to overload the deck such that the drive belts on the deck itself start to slip. I have noticed this on my 60" deck on my 4100 when mulching up heavy fall leaves. On a corner towards the discharge side where previous passes have left a build-up of wet leaves, it can put quite a load on the mower. Not related to the steering wheel position, but the mass of clippings that are being re-cut.

I am not sure if the tension on this belt can be tightened. I think once the belt starts to slip, it can be a quickly deteriorating situation as the charred belt will have a lot less grip on the drive pully.

- Rick

 

[trafford69]

Keeney,

Thanks for the reply.

The deck has been doing this since it was brand new. I have taken it back to my dealer and they went over the deck completely, sharpening the blades and checking all of the adjustments (everything was fine). When running in high grass and going straight it will bog down slightly but it will still cut properly. The mechanic believes it is a hydraulic issue since the poor cutting happens when the steering is calling for hydraulic pressure. That's why I wondered if the hydraulic system could be overhauled or replaced perhaps with one like what's in the next model up the 4110. I'm just not sure what that might involve or if it's possible at all.

It is enough of a problem that I have looked at upgrading to the 4110 or the 4115. According to my dealer, it would cost me about $6k or $7k to upgrade to the 4110, even more to the 4115, and that's just not worth it. If it was $1k or $2k to upgrade the hydraulics that would be worth the investment. I'm hoping someone on this forum can help me answer that question. I'm very impressed with the knowledge here and since this is my first "real tractor" I'm coming to the experts to learn what can or can't be done.

 

[RalphVa]

I was turning my 4010 with LX4 in uphill direction once, and it seemed to bog in making that turn. The terrain was very uneven there. There was little grass for the LX4 to bog any. It just seemed to take a little while in making that turn.

The steering is way too overcompensated. Would prefer the power steering to be more like it is on my VW or Benz: stiff. It's impossible to tell where the wheels are pointing without looking at them.

Have no idea whether the 4110 hydraulics are better or not. It has 2 more hp to drive them. That 2 more hp was $2,000. Cheaper hp was available in the 2210. I went with the 4010. Based on my experience with a 12 hp Gravely, it should be enough. The Gravely doesn't have power steering or HST to gobble up power though.

Think the easiest thing for you to do would be to let up on the HST and crawl around the turns. If going uphill you might have to back first and get in uphill direction, etc. When going uphill, one shifts to low range if it strains too much to stay in high. It's just common sense.

Folks often buy V8 engines so they don't have to push any harder on the pedal to go up a hill and let the engine idle around below 2,000 rpm in general. Doesn't make sense to have such waste.

Ralph

 

[bigpete]

My 60" on my 4110 takes most every reasonable mowing condition I throw at it. I am using a tri-cycler mulching kit, too. The hydraulics on the 4110 and 4115 are the same and are higher volume and pressure than the 4010.

I haven't read every post on the Web but haven't heard of a 4010 bogging with a belly mower. I know you said you were cutting to a 3" height, but how tall is the grass you are cutting? I read you are mowing at full throttle, but are you mowing at top ground speed?

It does sound like something is amiss here. Don't take my word for it, but I'd guess a hydraulic system upgrade for your 4010 isn't pratical--if it is even feasible. There are ways to increase the hydraulic pressure but my gut tells me that won't fix your problem either.

 

[Cliff_Johns]

The 4110 has a separate hydraulic pump for the steering, which, if installed, might make a difference, but I think easing up on the pedal to get more torque around the corners is probably the best thing to do.

Is the deck on the 4010 belt driven? I thought it was mid-PTO driven directly. If it's belt driven, I'd look for slippage.

Finally, I have to go slower on my lawn tractor as I turn too, and there are no hydraulics at all. I have never figured out why it works that way, but the cut is not as good as I turn. I would think the blades were spinning just as fast, so it shouldn't matter, but it does and the manual says it will work that way. Could it have to do with what the front tires are doing to the grass in a turn and where that crushed down grass passes through the cutters? I don't know.

Cliff

 

[Ledgemere Farm]

Try mowing straight to the end, then disengage the PTO. Make your turn and then back up to where you left off in the previous row. Turn your PTO back on and mow straight to the other end. Your lawn will look better too. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[trafford69]

First, thanks for all of the replies. I'll try to respond to them all in this reply.

I guess my biggest problem is that I previously had the Cub garden tractor with a 18hp Kohler engine and a 46" belt driven mowing deck and no problems mowing just about anything. I mowed down weeds almost 4" high and it never hesitated. The 4010 is an 18hp diesel with 54" deck that is driven off the mid pto. The pto drives the center blade and it is connected to the outer blade drive pulleys with a belt. I expect superior performance from this tractor and paid almost 3 times as much as I would have if I would have just replaced the Cub with a similar machine.

Typically I mow the grass every 10 to 14 days so it is never higher than 6" therefore I'm only trying to cut off 3" of grass. I mow at full throttle in high range. It still bogs on the turns when in low range but not nearly as bad. It's just that mowing in low range adds significantly to the time it takes to mow my 2+ acres since the yard is divided up into 4 disjointed sections.

I checked the hydraulics between the 4010 and the 4110/4115. The 4010: 5.7 gpm @ 1994 psi. The 4110/4115: 7.4 gpm @ 2420 psi. I assumed the three tractors were similar and that maybe the hydraulic change would be a possibility. I didn't think the difference in hp was much of a concern.

Mowing wise, it seems like I took a step backwards from the Cub. That being said, I use the FEL much more than I thought I would. I got 4 triax's of 2B gravel delivered and I was able to move the entire 100 tons with the FEL in about 12 hours. I have also moved a significant amount of soil (60+ tons). I am very happy with the FEL capabilities. If the hydraulics had just a little it more umph, I would probalby not consider any kind of an upgrade until both me and the 4010 are old and gray.

It seems that a lot of folks on this forum modify their tractors to make them more useful. I was hoping that the hydraulic upgrade would be practical and would provide me with a cost effective way to cure the one weakness I see with this tractor.

Does anyone know for sure that the hydraulic upgrade is impossible or at least impracticle?

Once again thanks for the advice and I really appreciate the learning expereince you guys are providing this tractor rookie.

 

[Dutch445]

Trafford,
It does sound like a HP issue. The hydro, and power-steering, and PTO are powered by that 18hp engine. You mention that you are mowing every 10-14 days, that seems like a long time, especially this past year with the amount of rain we had... the grass never stopped growing. Cutting to 3 inches from 6 inches is quite a bit, and I know Deere recommends the 1/3 rule, (only cut off 1/3 of the grass at a time). At 6" you are cutting 1/2 off to get to 3", but at 10-14 days,, I can't imagine only being at 6". But I'm not in your yard. From the 4010's I have sold, there have been no complaints as far as mowing power, and most of them go out with the 60" deck. One cemetery replaced a Toro HD Garden tractor, and they are thrilled with the improved power of the diesel for mowing with that 60" deck, but I know for a fact they mow at least once a week, and don't let the grass grow very high between.
You may try to mowing once at 5-7 days, and see how it does when it isn't trying to handle as much grass. If you still have a problem, the dealer could try to Dyno the tractor, and make sure it is making the proper HP.
As far as changing hydraulic systems, if it was possible, you are still trying to power the same options with the same HP. I can't see how a different hydraulic system would improve power to the PTO.

Do you use the PTO for any other work? rear tiller, front snowblower etc?

 

[RalphVa]

Looks as though you're getting some good replies on the mowing question. I want to ask you about the rock moving because I want to do the same thing with mine. First though, one last comment on the mowing. When you make a turn, the outer part of the mowing deck will be moving a fair bit faster. Max speed in high seems pretty fast to me. However, I know I used to do 2 wheelies (on a 3 wheel ZTR) around trees in top speed on a Scag. It certainly never bogged on a turn, but we were mowing with a 60" deck vs. a 72" available. Think it was only about 12 hp. Could have be 18; was only 1 cylinder; so likely only 12. I'd never let it get as high as you do, generally following the 1/3 rule. If too high, you mow high once and then again a little lower a day or so later.

You moved the rocks only with the FEL? How full did you fill it? Filled rear tires? Anything on the rear?

I was figuring on moving rocks with my FEL plus my Gravely cart hitched on the rear. Was planning to get a couple of those trailer props, maybe with a castor on bottom of each to put on tongue and at rear of the Gravely cart to be able to load it with the FEL, hitch up, reload FEL and take off down the hill to dump them. The Gravely cart is a dump cart, but I also have a drawbar that mounts on the 3 pt. Can raise it to start things going (after raising the back prop). I was figuring on only being able to fill the bucket and cart each about half full, maybe 1/2 yard total. The cart will hold about a 1/2 yard, and the bucket will probably hold close to that. That would be 1 yard full, which is about 2,000 pounds.

I need to fill on downhill side of a sideways-to-hill path, fill rocks on 2 or 3 wash areas and then fill rocks over some culverts of heavy wall PVC over a little stream. Will need near about 10 yards. Will likely order 2 or 3 more to haul over to the neighbor widow's driveway to fill in some pot holes for her.

Ralph