Perma-Chink for deck stain?

[Sigarms]

Has anyone used Perma-Chink for deck stain?

The product was recomeneded by the guy who built the deck, as his buddy who builds log homes swears by the product.

Not really familiar with it, but I guess that line of reasoning can make sense.

Just need to stain the new deck when the better weather shortly hits

Any other recommendations on a longer than normal last stain? It's a pretty big deck so the fewer times over the years doing it ourselves the better

TIA

 

[Duds13]

Take a look at this website for reviews on deck stains. At my old house I restored the deck and used the Armstrong Clark oil based stain. It was awesome. 3 years after applying there no signs of wear. Prep is everything though as I am sure you are aware. Most people think they can just apply stain to a deck with no prep work, then they blame the stain when it starts peeling, flaking, wearing off etc after one year.

8 Best Deck Stains in 2024: Expert Reviewed

The best deck stain depends on your needs and the deck. Explore our expert reviewed deck stains to find the best one for you.

www.deckstainhelp.com

 

[ponytug]

@Sigarms What kind of wood is the deck, how is it fastened down, and what are your goals behind staining? Longevity? UV protection? Insects? Color? Wood preservation? How often would you like to repeat it?

All the best,

Peter

 

[EddieWalker]

How long has it been since the deck was built? Did you use pressure treated wood?

When the formulation and process for Pressure Treated Wood was changed, a new issue was created. The new process forces a massive amount of water into the wood, and it takes a very long time for that moisture to leave the wood. You'll see it when you cut it, the water will actually drip from the inside of it. Even when the outside feels dry and you can sand it, there is still water coming out of that wood for months afterwards.

I tell my clients not to stain or seal anything for at least six months.

The other issue with modern treated wood is the movement you get out of it. You really can't predict what it will do, but twisting and shrinking are very common as the wood dries. 45 degree corners on the railing are impossible to keep tight. As the wood shrinks, the gaps get bigger. Deck boards need to be installed tight because the gaps between them will get wider as the wood dries. I never use 5/4 boards anymore because the gaps are crazy after the wood dries. Even the length of the boards will shrink. I've had treated 2x6x12 foot long boards shrink 3/4 of an inch in length!!! A quarter to half an inch isn't uncommon. Used to be that you installed deck boards, Bark Side Up, but that doesn't matter anymore. When the water leaves the boards, you will get cupping regardless of how you lay our boards.

After it's dry and you know what you have to deal with, then you can sand the deck and stain it. I rent a 1x2 foot vibratory sander from Home Depot with a bunch of 18 grit sand paper to smooth out a deck after it's dried. I usually come back a year after I build the deck to do all the finish work. By then, I'm sure it's dry and there wont be any more surprises.

I've never used Perma-Chink, so I can't comment on it. I have used a few other brands, including Cabot, that all disappointed me. Now, I just use the oil based stains from Sherwin Williams. My personal favorite is the clear, that I use on Western Red Cedar, and the Cedar logs that I cut from my land. Clients like the solid stain, which gives a lot more color then the semi solid stains.

For most things, I brush it on, then wipe off the extra with an old t shirt. For decking, I just brush it on and let it all soak in.

 

[Camofurever1]

I thought perma-chink was what is applied to log homes to seal the gaps between the stacked logs? It is rubbery with a pumice added to it for texture.

 

[ponytug]

How long has it been since the deck was built? Did you use pressure treated wood?

When the formulation and process for Pressure Treated Wood was changed, a new issue was created. The new process forces a massive amount of water into the wood, and it takes a very long time for that moisture to leave the wood. You'll see it when you cut it, the water will actually drip from the inside of it. Even when the outside feels dry and you can sand it, there is still water coming out of that wood for months afterwards.

I tell my clients not to stain or seal anything for at least six months.

The other issue with modern treated wood is the movement you get out of it. You really can't predict what it will do, but twisting and shrinking are very common as the wood dries. 45 degree corners on the railing are impossible to keep tight. As the wood shrinks, the gaps get bigger. Deck boards need to be installed tight because the gaps between them will get wider as the wood dries. I never use 5/4 boards anymore because the gaps are crazy after the wood dries. Even the length of the boards will shrink. I've had treated 2x6x12 foot long boards shrink 3/4 of an inch in length!!! A quarter to half an inch isn't uncommon. Used to be that you installed deck boards, Bark Side Up, but that doesn't matter anymore. When the water leaves the boards, you will get cupping regardless of how you lay our boards.

After it's dry and you know what you have to deal with, then you can sand the deck and stain it. I rent a 1x2 foot vibratory sander from Home Depot with a bunch of 18 grit sand paper to smooth out a deck after it's dried. I usually come back a year after I build the deck to do all the finish work. By then, I'm sure it's dry and there wont be any more surprises.

I've never used Perma-Chink, so I can't comment on it. I have used a few other brands, including Cabot, that all disappointed me. Now, I just use the oil based stains from Sherwin Williams. My personal favorite is the clear, that I use on Western Red Cedar, and the Cedar logs that I cut from my land. Clients like the solid stain, which gives a lot more color then the semi solid stains.

For most things, I brush it on, then wipe off the extra with an old t shirt. For decking, I just brush it on and let it all soak in.

While I haven't experienced water dripping out of my beams, I completely agree that around here, they are definitely still very wet, and dimensionally unstable. Lately I have been buying Douglas Fir with the heavier ground contact treatments (UC4C) which are even wetter, but they have more copper in them. Around here the box store grades (UC3)start failing around year three when used for any soil contact.

I had a 4x12 pressure treated deck support beam warp badly enough to distort a 10x15' section of deck. Replacing it a year later was a bit of a pain.

For my personal use, I usually buy the pressure treated at least six months in advance and dry it stacks with feather boards. I then sort it by distortion for what I need it for. The other thing that I do is soak the ends with oil based copper naphthenate in several coats, and the same for any cuts until the wood quits absorbing it. My local sources for pressure treated aren't prime grade, so there are a fair number of knots and checks, even before they start to dry.

Personally, I have never been a fan of deck or shingle/shake treatments that aren't oil based. In the past, I have diluted oil based ones with thinner for the first coat to improve the penetration. YMMV. I try not to apply it on a sunny day, and definitely wear an organic vapor respirator. Trust me.

I guess that I have a couple of concerns about on sanding decks. One is that if the deck boards themselves are pressure treated, sanding liberates dust filled with the treatment compound(s), which are toxic, and the pressure treated layer which is pretty thin to begin with is reduced.

@EddieWalker your clients are so lucky to get cedar from you! That's a real gift.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Duds13]

You could buy the best stain money could get you, but if you don't properly clean the deck and let it dry prior to applying the stain you are wasting your time and money.

 

[Sigarms]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Deck was litterally replaced end of November last year.

I assumed to wait about 6 months which would put me into May.

Everything used for fastening were screws and bolts.

Pressure treated wood from lowes.

Due to the size of deck and stairs, would prefer to keep staining to a minimum (not every 2-3 years if that makes sense).

The perma chink was what the one guy swore by. Yes, for log homes, apparently they make a brand for deck staining, not familiar with it at all, which is why I asked. I'm guessing it's the "deck defense" product, but hard finding real life experiences.

Deck Defense-One-Coat Deck Finish (1 Gallon)

Deck Defense is the best wood stain for your decks, rails and fences. It has been engineered for better performance, longer life, and easier application. Although it is a totally waterborne product, Deck Defense has penetrating properties like oil finishes, but unlike oil-based products, it...

www.loghomeshoppe.com

My first thought was oil based myself.

Needless to say, sanding was in the plans.

 

[Duds13]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Deck was litterally replaced end of November last year.

I assumed to wait about 6 months which would put me into May.

Everything used for fastening were screws and bolts.

Pressure treated wood from lowes.

Due to the size of deck and stairs, would prefer to keep staining to a minimum (not every 2-3 years if that makes sense).

The perma chink was what the one guy swore by. Yes, for log homes, apparently they make a brand for deck staining, not familiar with it at all, which is why I asked. I'm guessing it's the "deck defense" product, but hard finding real life experiences.

Deck Defense-One-Coat Deck Finish (1 Gallon)

Deck Defense is the best wood stain for your decks, rails and fences. It has been engineered for better performance, longer life, and easier application. Although it is a totally waterborne product, Deck Defense has penetrating properties like oil finishes, but unlike oil-based products, it...

www.loghomeshoppe.com

My first thought was oil based myself.

Needless to say, sanding was in the plans.

You may already know this, but even though the deck is new make sure you use a deck cleaner after sanding and then a brightener to open the wood's pores to help the stain soak in and adhere better. The Armstrong Clark stain I used covers a lot of square footage, so with a large deck it may be another reason for consideration.

 

[Snobdds]

How long has it been since the deck was built? Did you use pressure treated wood?

When the formulation and process for Pressure Treated Wood was changed, a new issue was created. The new process forces a massive amount of water into the wood, and it takes a very long time for that moisture to leave the wood. You'll see it when you cut it, the water will actually drip from the inside of it. Even when the outside feels dry and you can sand it, there is still water coming out of that wood for months afterwards.

I tell my clients not to stain or seal anything for at least six months.

The other issue with modern treated wood is the movement you get out of it. You really can't predict what it will do, but twisting and shrinking are very common as the wood dries. 45 degree corners on the railing are impossible to keep tight. As the wood shrinks, the gaps get bigger. Deck boards need to be installed tight because the gaps between them will get wider as the wood dries. I never use 5/4 boards anymore because the gaps are crazy after the wood dries. Even the length of the boards will shrink. I've had treated 2x6x12 foot long boards shrink 3/4 of an inch in length!!! A quarter to half an inch isn't uncommon. Used to be that you installed deck boards, Bark Side Up, but that doesn't matter anymore. When the water leaves the boards, you will get cupping regardless of how you lay our boards.

After it's dry and you know what you have to deal with, then you can sand the deck and stain it. I rent a 1x2 foot vibratory sander from Home Depot with a bunch of 18 grit sand paper to smooth out a deck after it's dried. I usually come back a year after I build the deck to do all the finish work. By then, I'm sure it's dry and there wont be any more surprises.

I've never used Perma-Chink, so I can't comment on it. I have used a few other brands, including Cabot, that all disappointed me. Now, I just use the oil based stains from Sherwin Williams. My personal favorite is the clear, that I use on Western Red Cedar, and the Cedar logs that I cut from my land. Clients like the solid stain, which gives a lot more color then the semi solid stains.

For most things, I brush it on, then wipe off the extra with an old t shirt. For decking, I just brush it on and let it all soak in.

I have really grown to hate pressure treated wood.

I have found using kiln dried wood with a good, coating of oil preservative, holds up just as well as pressure treated wood. The new PT formula doesn't really do much anymore, IMHO.

I have a trailer deck that I put all 2x8 pressure treated boards down. They all cupped, shrank, and pulled back from the locking tab. I ripped it all out and put down doug fir and slather it each year with new motor oil and diesel fuel. It has lasted twice as long as the PT with no shrinkage. It's still going strong.

 

[ponytug]

@Snobdds I agree. I prefer oak for trailer decks.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Sigarms]

Sounds like I should have spent more and be done with it for the composite material LOL

 

[newbury]

Sounds like I should have spent more and be done with it for the composite material LOL

Yup, that's just one of those things.
Years ago I needed to build a small "deck" to act as a base for a 10x15 Lifetime shed. I expected it to last 10 years (being plastic).
So I went to Home Depot and they had some of the "new" composite stuff. But they had mistakenly priced it just slightly less than PT 2x6.
So I bought some.
It was another "butt-kicker" mistake.
Came back a few days later and it was priced like now.
Should have bought all my van could carry.
That little deck is still almost as good as new.
(When I make buying mistakes like that my leg hurts from kicking my butt)

 

[Sigarms]

Yup, that's just one of those things.
Years ago I needed to build a small "deck" to act as a base for a 10x15 Lifetime shed. I expected it to last 10 years (being plastic).
So I went to Home Depot and they had some of the "new" composite stuff. But they had mistakenly priced it just slightly less than PT 2x6.
So I bought some.
It was another "butt-kicker" mistake.
Came back a few days later and it was priced like now.
Should have bought all my van could carry.
That little deck is still almost as good as new.
(When I make buying mistakes like that my leg hurts from kicking my butt)

The price difference between the lumber vs composite was enough to buy a brand new car. When I'm pulling money out to pay for it, I become a little more cheaper.

EDIT - In my defense, my wife agreed wholeheartedly.

 

[ponytug]

The price difference between the lumber vs composite was enough to buy a brand new car. When I'm pulling money out to pay for it, I become a little more cheaper.

EDIT - In my defense, my wife agreed wholeheartedly.

When I see lots of competing solutions all about the same cost, my thought is that either none of products work especially better (or at all). If there is a spectrum of prices, either someone has really good marketing, or there are real differences.

If there were a low cost ideal deck material, I think that we would all be using it. I think that there are performance pros and cons to decking material, and not many folks have unlimited budgets, so price matters as well as performance.

Marital happiness happens to be an important item to many of us, too.

I wouldn't sweat it. Work with what you have and move on.

All the best,

Peter

 

[34Willys]

Most PT wood I've seen looks like culls from the saw mill. If it's for sill plates or pier post type use, it doesn't matter so much as it's under compression and with an entire house on top of it, structural strength shouldn't be an issue.
Most decks with PT lumber I've seen laying boards flat look terrible with twisting, cupping, and curling up ends.

 

[Sigarms]

I wouldn't sweat it. Work with what you have and move on.

Believe me, I'm not beating myself up over it

To us it's a very large deck, and if you remember my thread on when we were having it replaced, the reality is we don't consider ourselves "deck people". However the deck does seem to be an integral part of the home, my wife does hang clothes out there, and we've decided since we spent some money on replacing it, we bought some smaller outdoor furniture to actually spend time and eat out there weather permitting.

When we decide to sell as the place is it's to large for us now and we buy or build a single level ranch (with a breezway LOL), I could see spending the money on something much smaller with composite, all things considered now.

I just mention the breezway because my neighbor has one, and I'm surprised that even in the summer, it's actually a very nice place to hang out and shoot the crap with them.

 

[nyone]

TWP (total wood protection) is also a quality stain brand how ever this being horizontal wood it's going to take a beating.

I have used permachink lifetime accents, water based stain (because I couldn't get oil based) on the trim for my cabin this year.

PermAchink lifetime accents trim with TWP 1500 series dark oak.

 

[newbury]

Believe me, I'm not beating myself up over it

To us it's a very large deck, and if you remember my thread on when we were having it replaced, the reality is we don't consider ourselves "deck people". However the deck does seem to be an integral part of the home, my wife does hang clothes out there, and we've decided since we spent some money on replacing it, we bought some smaller outdoor furniture to actually spend time and eat out there weather permitting.

When we decide to sell as the place is it's to large for us now and we buy or build a single level ranch (with a breezway LOL), I could see spending the money on something much smaller with composite, all things considered now.

I just mention the breezway because my neighbor has one, and I'm surprised that even in the summer, it's actually a very nice place to hang out and shoot the crap with them.

So what did you decide to go with?
I've got to refinish a deck again and am using up some SW "SuperDeck Oil-Based Semi-Transparent Wood Stain" and may need to buy more.
Is there a better product for "old decks"?

 

[Sigarms]

So what did you decide to go with?
I've got to refinish a deck again and am using up some SW "SuperDeck Oil-Based Semi-Transparent Wood Stain" and may need to buy more.
Is there a better product for "old decks"?

I believe I went exactly with what you are using

I thought there was some magic bullet that would last years and years that doesn't require any maintenance, and I believe I was wrong.

Question became on our end after exactly how long should you wait before replacing the "old deck" and finally decided to replace the whole thing.