Pole barn pad advise please

[stub]

Planning for 36x48 pole barn (clear span) w/2 10' lean-to's on each side. Site is heavy clay soil, no sod, little to no topsoil (bean field). Pretty level already, but I don't have anything to shoot it with but a line and a level. Finished floor will eventually be a partial slab, but the lean-to's and one 12x36 bay will be left just the fill.

I want the barn at least a foot above the grade, as I've been through a small flood before.

I figured 50'x60 foot pad 12" deep = 166 tons of fill

I got a price of $10 a ton delivered on "bank run gravel" or $12 a ton of "53 rock". Which I didn't think was too bad a price.

But I got a bid of $1500 to spread and compact it with a dozer and compactor, assuming one 8 hour day. Seems high to me and would strain the budget.

I do have an L3940 w/FEL, box and straight blades. I think between me and the dump truck I could get it spread but compacting it would be left to do.

There is a question here somewhere - do you think it would be OK to just spread it as good as I can and pour the slab later after the barn is up and it's settled for a while? Would it eventually settle on it's own under roof as good as compacting it, or would it ever settle good enough?

Should I put geotextile under it, or would that be a waste?

Or even put the barn up and fill it after - that way I'd have the level skirt boards to go by.

 

[tmajor]

I'd erect the barn first, then fill and forget compacting, as long as the fill is fairly course. Actually you could fill with stone, which won't compact much, and have drainage.

 

[BeezFun]

I do have an L3940 w/FEL, box and straight blades. I think between me and the dump truck I could get it spread but compacting it would be left to do.

If the driver will do a decent tailgate spread for you, it shouldn't be much work to finish it off with a machine that size.

There is a question here somewhere - do you think it would be OK to just spread it as good as I can and pour the slab later after the barn is up and it's settled for a while?

yes
I think you have to pour the slab after the barn is up unless you plan on attaching the barn structure to the concrete instead of using post holes. If you poured the slab first, how would you drill the holes along the edge for the poles?

Would it eventually settle on it's own under roof as good as compacting it, or would it ever settle good enough?

Driving around on it with a tractor when you spread it is pretty good compaction, you can also run a sprinkler on it to get it wet.

Should I put geotextile under it, or would that be a waste?

Not sure what purpose that would serve. Or is your ground so inconsistent that you need to bridge soft areas?

Or even put the barn up and fill it after - that way I'd have the level skirt boards to go by.

My experience this is really time consuming, requires a lot of hand work, and you usually end up running into some part of the building while you're doing it. Let the concrete guys do the final leveling when they pour. They'll use a little bobcat to tear around in there and get everything level in a fraction of the time it would take you.

 

[grsthegreat]

They rent vibratory plate compactors for about $120/day. These are the things that they compact soil with behind retaining walls.....work great on slabs also. I compacted my 30x40 shops slab with one.

Mind you you will have to know how to set up screed rods and forms if you want to set your rough grade now for a slab later on. If you just compact it haphazardously now, it will be tougher to do right when your ready for a slab.

its actually pretty easy to do. they sell do it yourself books that describe the process. Youll just need some stakes and 2x4's.

1500 is too dang much to level and compact. check with some concete finishers in your area also. seeing as work is slow, they may give you a great price on setting up the fill for future concrete, as this is what they do for a living.

 

[bleazenb]

I just completed this step in my barn build that's pictured in this forum. I raised my pad between 12 -18 inches with 180 ton of crushed asphalt that I received a good deal on. I did use a plate compactor every 4-5" inches of fill and now have a very solid pad. I am planning on topping off with 4-5" of limestone screenings to complete the pad and be ready to pour a 4" concrete pad. I spread it all with my JD 870 front end loader and leveled with loader and box blade. Very happpy with my results

 

[DJ54]

A 2X hand sight level can be bought new from $50 to $100. This and something like a Fat Max 1" wide tape measure should do what you need. Just drive a 2" X 2" stake, long enough to rest the level, at about eye level, back out of the way, but close enough to take shots. Of course this requires a helper to hold the tape measure.

Here is a pad I built last year for my new horsebarn. Approx. 70' wide, and 120' long. Took approx. 2800 tons of 80% bankrun/20% clay mix to build it. Hauled it all on the little 1 ton Chevy Dump truck setting there in the picture.

I put it down in 6" to 8" lifts, grading it off with my little Farmall A, and home made blade, circa 1964. And rolled 3 times over with the ole' 180 Massey, with the carry-all on back, with all the bankrun on it that would stick. Enough weight on there, I had just enough weight on the front end to steer. It compacted well enough, that when I backed across the pad, to make another lift, I just left tire tracks on the previous lift, and did not sink in anywhere.

Last year, we managed to get 1 rain every 7 to 10 days, which helped a bunch. I'd wait 2 days for it to dry some, and start again.

It took me 61 days to haul, grade and compact over 3,000 tons of fill for my barn, and new shop. 735 loads, to get it to rough grade.

If I can do that, with what I have. Your 166 tons should be a piece of cake, with what you have..

Yesterday I tried to drive a 5" post into some of that fill at the front of the barn. 10 licks with the driver, and the post was literally bouncing back. I thought there may be a large rock under it, but no..., just that hard..!!

I've done so much, with so little, for so long... It's just a way of life..!!

 

[BeezFun]

It took me 61 days to haul, grade and compact over 3,000 tons of fill for my barn, and new shop. 735 loads, to get it to rough grade.

An amazing feat. Is it cheaper doing it this way in your area compared to paying for 18 wheeler delivery? I can get 25 ton of limestone delivered for $175, if I go pick it up myself I can carry about 3 ton which costs something like $20 if I recall. It's the same quarry but these guys get it cheaper for commercial load, plus it probably cost me $10 each round trip for fuel. So it would cost me about $240 to pick up the same material they deliver for $175, and it takes no time as opposed to almost two full days driving back and forth to the quarry. The only time I save a lot of money is for small loads, where the cartage for a big truck kills the cost.

 

[DJ54]

I'm buying the bankrun for $1.00 per ton ( that's not a typo..!!) loading, and hauling myself. From the barn pad to the gravel pit is 4 miles round trip. I can haul 32 loads, on one tank of gas, and it would take right at 19 gallons to fill it back up, on a 21 gal. tank.

The best day, I hauled 36 loads. Started at about 7:00 a.m., and quit that night about 9:00 p.m.

Last years gas prices sure did help... Somewhere along the way, I calculated the fill cost less than $2.50 per ton, delivered to the site. That includes gas for the backhoe.

I boiught a backhoe to do a few jobs around the place, and load the fill. It wasn't pretty, but did the job. I sold it last fall for $300.00 less than I paid for it, but put aprox. 30 hours on it doing various jobs. So it more than paid for itself...

Here is picture from a previous project, and it doesn't get better than this one for me. My young Filly went through the ice on my pond in Feb. 2008, and luckily survived the ordeal. I decided to fill it in somehow. My neighbor next door started digging a new,approx. 3 acre pond. He told me I could have all I wanted, if I hauled it. Used his new J.D. 410 hoe to load it, and he provided the fuel. He just wanted rid of the dirt, which was shaley clay.

7 tenth's of a mile round trip, and was turning 5 loads an hour, loading myself... Ended up hauling 400 loads out of there all together...

I have hauled more for the barn pad, for getting a better slope on the backside, and base for a driveway out in front. Up to right at 3500 tons total for the barn job. So roughly 5100 tons, all hauled on that ton truck, and graded with that little Farmall A.

 

[BeezFun]

So roughly 5100 tons, all hauled on that ton truck, and graded with that little Farmall A.

You should put them in the hall of fame when you decide to retire them. There are small aircraft carriers that only weigh 2 or 3 times what you've hauled.

 

[DJ54]

I should have kept closer track of the loads, when I made the pad for my shop storage building where I'm at now... I bought that truck new, and left the dealership, straighto a concrete plant, to haul "wash out" material. Quit keeping track at 300 loads, and probably hauled 200 more. Dad helped me on that one in the fall of '93 through spring of '94.

Just rolled over 65,000 miles, last time I used it. Still a lot of miles, and projects left in the ole' girl..!! Although I'm going to have to do some welding inside the bed. I've literally worn holes through in places... :thumbsup: