pond options and equipment rental?

[Conservative1]

I'm in a somewhat unique position. I am self employed, working what I would call part time in a rather well paying job. I have time to work here on my 10 acres during the daytime, and even have a somewhat flexible schedule. This won't last forever, I'm basically taking a month or three off to work on the farm.
Now, on to my problem. I have two fields, good pasture. I ran a few cattle in both fields this year- one field is 5 acres, one is about 3.5. The 5 acre field has a pond that is about 70 feet round, and holds runoff well. It has never dropped below 1.5 feet all the way across, but it begins draining at about 3 feet. (short banks) It is at least 25 years old, and has never been cleaned or dug out. I'd like to clean it out, but my JD 790 wouldn't be up to the task, I'm pretty sure.

In my 3.5 acre field, I have another low area, it was always wet down there, and may have been a "stock tank" at one point long ago. I got out there with the 790 last summer and dug a 30x15 ft rectangular area out. I got it to about 28 inches in depth, before the tractor started to get stuck. I quit while I was ahead... it has never gone dry, and kept 11 inches of water even during the dry august we had- i.e. no rain to speak of for 22 days.

I would like to dig both of these ponds deeper. I can hire someone to do it, or I can rent the equipment and do it myself. Since I have the time, and the desire, I'd like to take the rental/ do it myself route.
I put on my waders last week, and stepped off into that new pond, and sunk to my knees in clay mud. I pulled out before sinking any further... it's pretty soft, and there was no one there if I got my self stuck. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Can I rent a mid-sized back hoe and hope to dig this to about 4 or 6 feet deep? Or wil I need a heavier piece of machinery? I'm pretty sure I could learn to run most machines quickly and safely, and like I said, I have a flexible schedule.
What type of machine should I get to get the job done? Has anyone rented a backhoe or trackhoe and dug a good hole, without any experience?
The sides of this hole are pretty firm- my 790 with FEL full of mud, loaded tires, and a 5' cutter on the back didn't cause any impressions in the mud after a good hard rain, so I think the bank is up to the task.
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
C1

 

[OkeeDon]

If you want to dig the 70' pond deeper, you're going to need something that will reach halfway across, from a safe point above the bank, and still have enough reach to go down 6' below you. That's a good size excavator, like the one the contractor brought in to do my pond (see attachment), which has a 52' reach.

You could probably learn to run it, but something that big will likely be difficult to rent. On a smaller scale, the folks building on the property next to mine rented what I would call a mid-size excavator, a JCB with about a 30' reach, and it cost something like $1200 per week.

Before hiring my contractor, I also considered buying a "beater" excavator and digging it myself -- when making a new pond, you don't need as long a reach, because you can keep moving back. I've seen excavators on EBay for as Little as $4K, usually from someone who bought it to dig a pond and is now selling it. I ended up not taking that course because I also needed to move the spoil (over 2,000 yards), and grade it, and I found a contractor who would do it all for a good price.

Considering that you will be likely to find a contractor that will do the digging for about $1 - $1.50 per cubic yard, I think my advice would be to hire the contractor and find another project to have fun with. You probably have less than 700 yards to dig. I bet you can get both ponds cleaned out and deepened for about a grand. While my contractor was on site, I had him run next door and clean out my son-in-law's pond, make it a little bigger and reslope the banks. It's about 125' x 85', and about 12' deep. He charged me $500. You usually have to pay one-way on the transportation of the excavator, also.

 

[jinman]

I think Don's advice is good, but I think you might hire the first pond cleaned out and decide whether you think you could do the second pond or if you want to tackle that project after watching/learning from the first job. In my opinion, experience and know-how are at least as important as having the equipment available.

Oh yes.... Take lots of pictures. No job should be done without lots and lots of pictures to post here on TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[PineRidge]

Sometimes I have a tendency to bite off a bit more than I can chew. But when the wife and I decided some years back to put a pond on our lot we hired it out to a local outfit that worked with our engineer.

Because there was a **** involved with our project there was some concern for the amount of water/vs. the depth of the pond itself. The **** had to be cut 12 feet below the ground surface and then brought up to the correct finished height so that it would be keyed into the ground correctly. All the while the clay had to be compacted while backfilling.

I'm glad I decided to farm it out as those boys brought in the heavy dozers, excavators, and a compactor and worked hard for 10 days straight. More than I personally would have been willing to tackle. The finished pond was well worth what we paid.

If you have lots of time to spend you can do it yourself. But, there are other projects that you can better handle.

 

[Taylortractornut]

I dig a few ponds each year, Itd be bes to hire it out as many renatl stores wont rent out a long reach excavator, You might rent one from ad ealer if he knows you. One other thing if you digg too dep and go past the clay if there is any sand or a ridge of bedrock you may loose water there. On the smaller pond it may be best to drain it and dr1y it out then have a scraper and dozer com in and dig it out. With a good 10 yard elevation/paddlewheel scraper you I can move 800 to a 1000 yards a day. The last one we dug we took a 762 J scraper and i stripped the topsoil and piled it. then took the scraper and dug my clay out and stock pileds it and went way into the sand. When we goteh the right depth and form I packed the sand by loading the scraper and driving in the bottom and sides. Then went and started picking my clay up and putting 5 inches of clay down and packing it. then lay another 5 inches down. and pack. The scraper exerts more PSI than a roller when loaded. Digging the other pond out would be hard without a drgline or a long reach hoe. APC300LC Komatsu hoe may reachthe 35 feet from each side of the pond but it would leave a little in the middle because of the booms travel radius.