Potential Fuel Injection System Conversion?

[EhM8]

As yet, the only tractors that the manufacturers are providing with commonrail engines are in the bigger +100hp category. I guess the sub 100hp are deemed fairly low consumption anyway and in the budget category they probably want to keep manufacturing expenses as low as possible, and the commonrail system I understand is a fairly expensive add on. With fuel prices though, I reckon we all probably would like to have our tractors using the least amount of fuel they can.

An interesting development in Australia is this guy who claims to have come up with an alternative to the commonrail set-up that can be retro fitted. From what I understand, each injector is itself a fuel pump and the high pressure injection occurs at the injector. This apparently saves on the cost of expensive high pressure fuel pumps required with the commonrail system. You don't actually have a mechanically driven fuel pump at all, and this in itself saves hp.

It does seem to be taking a while for him to get anybody to invest in his invention. At an agricultural show, I saw the technology used to convert a V8 petrol engine into a diesel. The multi-point injection controlled by computer apparently means the engine components don't have to as strong as in a conventional diesel, and the conversion seemed to only entail pulling off the fuel pump and chucking it and then adding the computer and injectors.

If this invention gets off the ground, I am just wondering if it might be an option for us with smaller or older tractors to improve the fuel efficiency. If they can turn a V8 petrol engine into a diesel, then hopefully it would be easy and safe to do a normal diesel engine. Of course, it would depend on costs versus benefit, but it would be interesting if this invention does make it out into the market place.

:: Green Diesel ::

 

[CATMAN]

Thanks for the link. I watched it twice already. If it performs like they say, I hope it does make it to the market place. One item I noticed, they haven't gone into production yet, they may find that hand-built prototype injectors work fine, BUT to get that same consistency and cleaniness in mass production might be a hurdle. Still interesting for someone who works on diesel engines and likes their simple design.

 

[john_bud]

Warning - I'm hanging my professional skeptics shingle out!

So, I guess the generation of the electricity to power the individual (less efficient) motors in each injector is less power than one gear driven pump?

I know on trucks like the Duramax, the pump is cheap (relative) and the injectors are expensive (200 from ebay). Basically 2 injectors = 1 pump. So how is making the injectors more expensive and more prone to failure a good thing?

Looks like a scam under the guise of going green. Remember, you turn green just before you hurl.

jb

 

[EhM8]

Yeah, there are a lot of questions, but if they are right, it would be a lot simpler technology to apply to existing engines than the commonrail, you would think. I love the idea that you can chuck the mechanical fuel pump away. I forget how many hp the fuel pump uses, but it is suprisingly substantial, so even without the more efficient combustion, you've got a benefit there. How reliable it would be in comparison I don't know. The performance figures sound amazing.

Of course, these fellows are trying to promote the technology in the best possible light in order obtain financing, so it will be interesting to watch.

 

[EhM8]

I am not an engineer, so you could be right. Kind of reminds me of submersible pumps though for bores. For a mechanical driven pump you need quite a substantial hp engine to drive it, whereas a submersible pump down the bore is quite a small motor. In the video, the pressure these individual injectors achieve is something in the order of 10 times compared to commonrail - would the generator require to power these injectors require 10 times more horsepower to drive? I don't know. Overall, it seems a simplification of the system to me... it is not like you are adding injectors to the system like you do with electronic injection in petrol engines, so literally the million dollar question I guess is how reliable the transducers are.

You've given me a question to ask if I see them at another ag-show - how much horsepower is required to drive the transducers compared to the fuel pump. If it is a scam, it's a certainly a complex one that they've invested a lot of time and effort into. To me, it sounds like a neater idea than a lot of other engine modifications I've seen.

Apparently, they are expecting the price of the injectors to be around $1000 ea... so they are expensive! Then again, you look at the cost of other engine conversions - petrol and diesel to LPG is quite expensive too.

You don't have to be green to feel the pain at the fuel bowser.

Warning - I'm hanging my professional skeptics shingle out!

So, I guess the generation of the electricity to power the individual (less efficient) motors in each injector is less power than one gear driven pump?

I know on trucks like the Duramax, the pump is cheap (relative) and the injectors are expensive (200 from ebay). Basically 2 injectors = 1 pump. So how is making the injectors more expensive and more prone to failure a good thing?

Looks like a scam under the guise of going green. Remember, you turn green just before you hurl.

jb

 

[john_bud]

Ah! You answered one of my questions - $1000 per injector.

That is probably a reasonable price given the task.

One concern is longevity of the injectors. Common rail (22,000 - 24,000 psi) injectors are failing after 100,000 miles with the poor US fuel. Particles are eroding the nozzles and water is causing cavitation / boiling. On a truck, 100,000 miles is about 2500 hours. New versions are supposed to last up to 200,000 miles, only time will tell.

Still, if you drop fuel use from 1 gal / hour to 0.875 gal per hour (reasonable 12% gain) it will take the life of the injectors to get payback. Now, that's just with mental calculation so don't hold me to it!! Naturally rising fuel costs would reduce the payback period.

As you learn more, please post back with details on this interesting topic.

jb