Buying Advice Potential PT Buyer Questions

PTWannaHave · Jun 17, 2010

Hello all,

I am seriously considering purchasing a PT to answer my non-agricultural tractor needs I've been reading this forum with interest!

In my opinion, PTs solve three major shortcomings of CUTs: i) weight distribution, ii) steering, and iii) seeing what your implement is doing without twisting your back and neck. (A very low center of gravity is a bonus!) I am waiting (in vain?) for JD or Kubota to take their F-series tractors and beef them up for tougher work

To me, it's been a no-brainer for a long time that rear-engine, rear-steer and front-implement is the way to go for anything that is not ploughing acres and acres of farmland... A PT seems to be the closest thing to that, that can also use ground-engaging attachments.

Anyhow, I am a newbie, and have never come closer to a PT than the internet. I live in The Far Great White North (Canada), and am unlikely to be able to try one before I buy After reading a lot of material in the forum, I am left with the following questions. (It may be worthwhile to split into separate forum threads?)

1.) If one wheel spins, then 'stuck'? (I.e.: all wheels on same hydraulic 'circuit'. If one wheel spins, all hydraulic pressure/torque goes there and none left for other three wheels.) This is quite a concern (I know very little about hydraulics? It is a pain on my current Cub garden tractor that when one wheel spins, I am stuck.

1.1) Can this be easily changed to make either all wheels independent, or have FWD & RWD independent of each other?

1.3) If one wheel motor dies, simply disconnect hydraulic hoses, plumb bypass, and keep going on indefinitely on three wheels?

1.4) This might sound very newbie-ish: Since the PTOs are hydraulic motors on the implements, does that mean that the speed can be infinitely varied? For example, you could control the speed at which the mowing blades turn, or the speed of the rotation of the tines on the tiller.

2.) Anyone ever thought of ordering a PT without an engine, and then installing your engine of choice (say a Honda, or liquid cool Kawa, diesel, or ...)?

3.) Anyone know if a PT can be ordered in desired color (other than JD and MF??

4.) How does the mowing deck float over the surface exactly? I haven't seen good pics that explain that

4.1) Do you have to lower the arms with the deck on flat driveway to adjust height before starting to mow? (I.e.: what replaces the 1-2-3-4-5 height settings of a lawn tractor? Mowing will represent 2/3-3/4 of my time on the tractor.)

4.2) I would like a 72in mower, but the widest available (even for PT-1430) appears to be 60. You'd have to go to a PT-1445 for 72in. I wonder why that is (I currently have a 46in mower, and would like to reduce my 4hr/week grass cutting time?

5.) The Rock-n-Dirt and 4-in-1 buckets appear to be the same size and capacity Why buy the Rock-n-Dirt bucket? What are the actual four tasks of the 4-in-1 bucket?

5.1) Can the tooth bar and grapple of the Grapple Bucket be installed/xfered to the 4-in-1 bucket?

5.2) Can the PT-425 handle 7.5cuft of topsoil in the 10cuft Light Material Bucket?

As you can probably tell, I would prefer to make do with one or two buckets, instead of four...!!

6.) Will the 60" mower handle weeds? I have two mowed parts on our property. One part with lawn (grass), and another mowed part with wild weeds. (Practically no grass; thicker-stemmed plant material; not brush or tree saplings.) The mower on my lawn tractor (side-discharge) does not do well in the weeds; it plugs up very fast. (I'm guessing the weeds have a much higher moisture content than grass?

7.) Why does a hydraulic filter cost $18. ??!! How many hours can you do on one filter?

8.) Has anyone found the Power Dumper (trailer) to be a good value? (I already have a 10-12cuft lawn tractor dump trailer, as well as a solidly built 5x9 utility trailer.)

9.) What would be the advantage of the PT Winch over a regular 4-wheeler winch?

Thank-you in advance for your time that you can devote to any one of the questions above. (Even without answers to the above, I am currently preferring a PT to a std CUT...)

Best regards,

PTWannaHave

BobRip · Jun 17, 2010

PTWannaHave said:
Hello all,

I am seriously considering purchasing a PT to answer my non-agricultural tractor needs I've been reading this forum with interest!

In my opinion, PTs solve three major shortcomings of CUTs: i) weight distribution, ii) steering, and iii) seeing what your implement is doing without twisting your back and neck. (A very low center of gravity is a bonus!) I am waiting (in vain?) for JD or Kubota to take their F-series tractors and beef them up for tougher work

YOUR COMMENTS ARE EXACTLY MY EXPERIENCE AND BELIEFS.

To me, it's been a no-brainer for a long time that rear-engine, rear-steer and front-implement is the way to go for anything that is not ploughing acres and acres of farmland... A PT seems to be the closest thing to that, that can also use ground-engaging attachments.

Anyhow, I am a newbie, and have never come closer to a PT than the internet. I live in The Far Great White North (Canada), and am unlikely to be able to try one before I buy After reading a lot of material in the forum, I am left with the following questions. (It may be worthwhile to split into separate forum threads?)

1.) If one wheel spins, then 'stuck'? (I.e.: all wheels on same hydraulic 'circuit'. If one wheel spins, all hydraulic pressure/torque goes there and none left for other three wheels.) This is quite a concern (I know very little about hydraulics? It is a pain on my current Cub garden tractor that when one wheel spins, I am stuck.

ONE WHEEL SLIPPING DOES NOT TRANSFER ALL OF THE POWER TO THAT WHEEL. THERE ARE TWO CIRCUIT. THE LEFT FRONT AND RIGHT REAR ARE ON ONE AND THE RIGHT FRONT AND LEFT REAR ARE ON THE OTHER. IF ONE WHEEL SLIPS, THAT POWER IS MOSTLY TRANSFERRED TO THE WHEEL ON THE OPPOSITE CORNER. IT IS BETTER TO HAVE ALL WHEELS WITH TRACTION (OF COURSE), BUT IT DOES WORK WITH EVEN TWO WHEELS SLIPPING. I HAVE DRIVEN IT WITH BOTH FRONT WHEELS OFF THE GROUND WHILE PUSHING A ROLLER.

1.1) Can this be easily changed to make either all wheels independent, or have FWD & RWD independent of each other? NOT NEEDED

1.3) If one wheel motor dies, simply disconnect hydraulic hoses, plumb bypass, and keep going on indefinitely on three wheels? THERE WOULD BE NOTHING TO HOLD THE WHEEL SINCE THE MOTOR IS THE AXLE. THE FAILURE MODE I HAVE SEEN IS A LEAKING SEAL. I JUST DROVE HOME. SOMEBODY ELSE PLEASE ANSWER.

1.4) This might sound very newbie-ish: Since the PTOs are hydraulic motors on the implements, does that mean that the speed can be infinitely varied? For example, you could control the speed at which the mowing blades turn, or the speed of the rotation of the tines on the tiller. NOT REALLY. THERE IS A VARIABLE DISPLACEMENT PUMP ON THE WHEEL CIRCUITS, BUT NOT ON THE OTHERS. CHANGING THE ENGINE SPEED DOES CHANGE THE PTO SPEED.

2.) Anyone ever thought of ordering a PT without an engine, and then installing your engine of choice (say a Honda, or liquid cool Kawa, diesel, or ...)? PT MIGHT BE WILLING TO PUT A DIFFERENT ENGINE ON IT. I DON'T THINK THIS HAS BEEN ASKED BEFORE.

3.) Anyone know if a PT can be ordered in desired color (other than JD and MF??

4.) How does the mowing deck float over the surface exactly? I haven't seen good pics that explain that THERE IS A FLOAT MODE ON THE FRONT ARMS. THE MOWER IS THEN SUPPORTED BY ITS OWN WHEELS. THE ARMS MOVE UP AND DOWN WITH THE MOWER.

4.1) Do you have to lower the arms with the deck on flat driveway to adjust height before starting to mow? (I.e.: what replaces the 1-2-3-4-5 height settings of a lawn tractor? Mowing will represent 2/3-3/4 of my time on the tractor.) THE MOWER WHEELS CONTROL THE MOWING HEIGHT. YOU UNDO BOLTS AND MOVE THEM TO OTHER HOLES FOR THE REAR WHEELS. FOR THE FRONT YOU MOVE SHIMS (ACTUALLY RINGS) TO CHANGE HEIGHT.

4.2) I would like a 72in mower, but the widest available (even for PT-1430) appears to be 60. You'd have to go to a PT-1445 for 72in. I wonder why that is (I currently have a 46in mower, and would like to reduce my 4hr/week grass cutting time?

5.) The Rock-n-Dirt and 4-in-1 buckets appear to be the same size and capacity Why buy the Rock-n-Dirt bucket? What are the actual four tasks of the 4-in-1 bucket? I LIKE THE 4 IN 1. I AM NOT SURE WHAT THE ROCK-N-DIRT BUCKET IS. THE 4-IN-1 CAN SCOOP AND SCRAPE FROM THE FRONT, CAN SCRAPE GOING FORWARD WITH THE BACK OF THE BUCKET (BUCKET OPEN), CAN GRAB THE TOP OF A PILE AND THEN CLOSE TO FILL IT, AND CAN SCRAPE GOING BACKWARDS WITH THE BACK OF THE BUCKET (AND FILL AT THE SAME TIME). I MAY NOT HAVE DESCRIBED THIS VERY WELL. I HAVE THE LIGHT MATERIAL BUCKET AND HARDLY EVEN USE. I ALSO HAVE THE GRAPPLE BUCKET WHICH IS OUTSTANDING WITH BRUSH. I ALSO HAVE THE 4-IN1. GOOD FOR DIRT.

5.1) Can the tooth bar and grapple of the Grapple Bucket be installed/xfered to the 4-in-1 bucket?

5.2) Can the PT-425 handle 7.5cuft of topsoil in the 10cuft Light Material Bucket? IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO. I FIND THE 4-IN-1 FILLS MUCH EASIER AND WILL EFFECTIVELY HOLD MORE FOR THAT REASON. HENCE THE RARE USE OF THE LMT.

As you can probably tell, I would prefer to make do with one or two buckets, instead of four...!!

6.) Will the 60" mower handle weeds? I have two mowed parts on our property. One part with lawn (grass), and another mowed part with wild weeds. (Practically no grass; thicker-stemmed plant material; not brush or tree saplings.) The mower on my lawn tractor (side-discharge) does not do well in the weeds; it plugs up very fast. (I'm guessing the weeds have a much higher moisture content than grass?

7.) Why does a hydraulic filter cost $18. ??!! How many hours can you do on one filter? 50 HOURS. I GET MINE FROM NAPA. I DON'T REMEMBER THE COST. IT'S NAPA 1551 FOR THE PT422.

8.) Has anyone found the Power Dumper (trailer) to be a good value? (I already have a 10-12cuft lawn tractor dump trailer, as well as a solidly built 5x9 utility trailer.) LOOK AT THEIR VIDEO. I DON'T OWN ONE, BUT LIKE THE CONCEPT. IT WILL NOT WORK AS WELL IF YOU HAVE TO CHANGE HOSES ON YOUR BUCKET.

9.) What would be the advantage of the PT Winch over a regular 4-wheeler winch? I HAVE THE PT WINCH. IT DOES NOT HAVE FREE WHEELING. I WOULD NOT GET IT AGAIN. I WOULD GET A DIFFERENT HYDRAULIC ONE. THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM ON THE PT WOULD PROBABLY NOT DO WELL ON AN ELECTRIC WINCH. NOT HAVING FREE WHEELING IS A PAIN.

Thank-you in advance for your time that you can devote to any one of the questions above. (Even without answers to the above, I am currently preferring a PT to a std CUT...)

Best regards,

PTWannaHave

WOW, THAT WAS A LOT OF GOOD QUESTIONS. I WILL TRY TO ANSWER SOME IN CAPS.

J_J · Jun 17, 2010

Winch
A winch for the PT should be hydraulic since you have the hyd fluid available. The battery is not set up for the draw down that an electric winch would take.

Filter.
Filters are designed differently for different reasons. The ones on the PT are input filters, at about 10 microns. I paid about $50 for the hyd filter on my Case trencher.

Weeds.
Look at Mossroads videos of him cutting 4 ft weeds. Click on his little green PT on one of his post.

Hyd motors on implements.
Most of the PT have a solenoid on/off on the PTO. On my PT, I have a lever that gives me variable control. That is not to say, that you can not add a gate or needle valve to the PTO output and vary the speed of the hyd motor.

American Bulldog · Jun 17, 2010

Lots of good questions, most you should ask the factory, and you will probably get the best answer.

I don't own one yet, but I will tell you what I know.

1. I think that one wheel can spin on the front and one on the back axle, but not sure

2. definitely stick with the supplied engine. I am 99% sure they won't sell you one without it anyway.

3. I think they only come in one color, just like every other tractor manufacturer out there.

4. The lift and tilt functions of the arms have a float position, and the mower rolls on the wheels. On at least the larger PT's they have draft control, which puts light upward pressure on the arms, transferring some of the mower weight to the tractor.

5. Not really sure... At least I'm honest.

6. Finish mowers in general do not handle brush very well. Best off cutting the brush with a brush cutter. If it is just tall weeds then a flail mower will work as well.

7. $18 doesn't sound too bad to me. Not sure how often to change, but usually it is like a once a year thing.

8. I am not a big fan of power dump trailers. I would rather have the light material bucket, and use that.

9. PT winch probably is much easier to install, but that's about it.

I am headed there this weekend.....shoot me a PM if you want me to check anything out for you.

frischtr · Jun 17, 2010

I'm a relatively new PT-425 owner, and I can give answers/opinions to some of these questions...

1.) If one wheel spins, then 'stuck'? (I.e.: all wheels on same hydraulic 'circuit'. If one wheel spins, all hydraulic pressure/torque goes there and none left for other three wheels.) This is quite a concern (I know very little about hydraulics? It is a pain on my current Cub garden tractor that when one wheel spins, I am stuck.

Not sure about the circuitry, but the PT seems to have plenty of torque even when one wheel is spinning, maybe JJ or some of the others would have a better idea.

1.4) This might sound very newbie-ish: Since the PTOs are hydraulic motors on the implements, does that mean that the speed can be infinitely varied? For example, you could control the speed at which the mowing blades turn, or the speed of the rotation of the tines on the tiller.

PTO is on/off, no variable speed. I do wonder if you could replace the PTO pump with a variable speed pump. That would be interesting.

2.) Anyone ever thought of ordering a PT without an engine, and then installing your engine of choice (say a Honda, or liquid cool Kawa, diesel, or ...)?

Not sure if they'd even sell you one this way. The PT's pumps and hydraulic layout are designed around the engine used in a particular model.

3.) Anyone know if a PT can be ordered in desired color (other than JD and MF??

Repaint yourself?

4.) How does the mowing deck float over the surface exactly? I haven't seen good pics that explain that

Float feature basically allows the arms to move up and down without hydraulic pressure. The weight of the implement itself keeps it on the ground.

4.1) Do you have to lower the arms with the deck on flat driveway to adjust height before starting to mow? (I.e.: what replaces the 1-2-3-4-5 height settings of a lawn tractor? Mowing will represent 2/3-3/4 of my time on the tractor.)

Nope, just set the lever to float on any terrain. The cut height has to be set by adjusting the caster spacers in front, and the bolt-on rear wheels in the back. Cut height cannot be adjusted on the fly, but only takes 2 or 3 minutes to do. Using the arms is possible, but very difficult (read: impossible) to maintain a flat cut.

4.2) I would like a 72in mower, but the widest available (even for PT-1430) appears to be 60. You'd have to go to a PT-1445 for 72in. I wonder why that is (I currently have a 46in mower, and would like to reduce my 4hr/week grass cutting time?

Going from a 46" to a 60" will reduce you cutting time by a lot already. Not to mention the front mounted mower kicks a mid-mount in the teeth! Unless you have a fairway for a yard, its hard to maintain a nice flowing cut with a 72" deck.

5.) The Rock-n-Dirt and 4-in-1 buckets appear to be the same size and capacity Why buy the Rock-n-Dirt bucket? What are the actual four tasks of the 4-in-1 bucket?

The 4 in 1 is a bucket, grapple, blade, and false bottom bucket. Sure its nicer than the rock bucket, but also much more expensive. You must evaluate what type of work you'll be doing.

5.1) Can the tooth bar and grapple of the Grapple Bucket be installed/xfered to the 4-in-1 bucket?

The new grapple buckets (at least for the 425) have stamped and welded teeth, not bolt-on. As above, the 4-in-1 can be used as a grapple.

5.2) Can the PT-425 handle 7.5cuft of topsoil in the 10cuft Light Material Bucket?

As long as your topsoil doesn't overload the machine itself, no problem. Add weights on the rear of the 425 and you'll be able to handle more weight up front.

As you can probably tell, I would prefer to make do with one or two buckets, instead of four...!!

6.) Will the 60" mower handle weeds? I have two mowed parts on our property. One part with lawn (grass), and another mowed part with wild weeds. (Practically no grass; thicker-stemmed plant material; not brush or tree saplings.) The mower on my lawn tractor (side-discharge) does not do well in the weeds; it plugs up very fast. (I'm guessing the weeds have a much higher moisture content than grass?

No problem there, you may just have to move a bit slower in that area.

7.) Why does a hydraulic filter cost $18. ??!! How many hours can you do on one filter?

50 hours between filter changes. The filter is a standard part. I don't have the number handy, but others have posted equivalents.

8.) Has anyone found the Power Dumper (trailer) to be a good value? (I already have a 10-12cuft lawn tractor dump trailer, as well as a solidly built 5x9 utility trailer.)

No experience with the power dumper.

9.) What would be the advantage of the PT Winch over a regular 4-wheeler winch?

No experience here either.

~Tim~

KentT · Jun 17, 2010

frischtr,

When you say the new grapple bucket has stamped and welded teeth, are you talking about the grapple bucket, or the new lighter-weight utility grapple? My grapple bucket has bolt-on individual teeth, similar to my rock bucket, but much longer...

PTWannaHave,

I don't have four buckets, but I do have three: LM bucket, grapple bucket, and rock bucket. The rock bucket is the same size as the grapple bucket, and is designed specifically for digging. The grapple bucket digs just as well, so I never use my rock bucket. The LM bucket is not designed for digging, but rather to transport light materials. Think of it more as a large wheelbarrow, and not the shovel. I use mine frequently to transport all kinds of things, because it holds a lot -- about twice as much as the other buckets.

You cannot readily move the grapple from the grapple bucket to another one, such as the 4-in-1. On my grapple bucket (about 4 years old) you could remove the individual teeth, one by one, and put them on a different bucket -- if you drill the holes in that bucket to bolt them onto.

Since I got my grapple bucket, I never use my Rock bucket, since the grapple bucket digs just as well, and is the same size so it holds just as much. I suggest you forego the Rock bucket.

The 4-in-1 will grasp some brush or a log, but will hold only a fraction of the amount of brush that a grapple bucket will. Unless you need to move a lot of brush, my recommendation would be to get a 4-in-1 and put an aftermarket toothbar, such as those made by Markham, on it. An aftermarket toothbar can be removed by just removing two bolts, whereas my Power Trac buckets (grapple and rock) have individual teeth that must be unbolted.

This would allow you to both dig using the teeth and spread the material using the blade part of the 4-in-1 bucket. Then, I'd recommend the LM bucket to go along with it. (My LM bucket has essentially replaced my wheelbarrow.) This would get you down to only two buckets...

As BobRip suggested, I recommend you not get the Power Trac winch. Instead, I'd recommend a MileMarker hydraulic winch, and then make a mount for it. The most versatile mounting would be to put a 2" receiver on a QA plate (or buy the EXPENSIVE Power Trac one, premade). Then mount the winch in a cradle that goes into that 2" receiver. If you then put a 2" receiver on the rear of the PT, and use long enough hoses, you could operate the winch from both ends of the PT. Note that in addition to free-wheeling, you can also get a remote control for the MileMarker, unless I'm mistaken...

frischtr · Jun 17, 2010

KentT said:
frischtr,

When you say the new grapple bucket has stamped and welded teeth, are you talking about the grapple bucket, or the new lighter-weight utility grapple? My grapple bucket has bolt-on individual teeth, similar to my rock bucket, but much longer...

Grapple bucket. The whole toothbar is one piece now, and welded on, instead of bolted. If I get the chance, I will post a picture of mine this evening in this thread...

frischtr · Jun 17, 2010

Here you go. I suppose this is the new style. I purchased in April of this year...

Gravy · Jun 17, 2010

frischtr said:
Here you go. I suppose this is the new style. I purchased in April of this year...

Based on my experience with the brush grapple, those teeth are gonna bend. The good news is that they bend back if you can swing a big sledge hammer.

Gravy · Jun 17, 2010

PTWannaHave,

If you are looking at a 425, you are likely stuck with the Robin engine. I've been looking for an alternative for a while now. The Robin is particularly short front-to-back, and the "tub" of the 425 is designed around that dimension. A bigger engine will require at least some re-engineering.

The other bad news is that the Robin is not remotely a cold-weather engine. It's marginal at best at starting below 50 degrees F. The new fuel injected version is supposed to be better according to the Robin website, but I don't know if PT is using that version.

If you can swing it, I suggest looking at a 1430 or larger, and adding on cold-weather starting aids, such as intake heaters, block heaters, battery heaters, etc.