Pouring concrete....

[NOTV8]

can one guy (me) pour, screed and finish a 37'x20' patio? is there something I can put on the concrete mix to delay the time before it get hard? Last time I did my front, by the time I get to the other end of my sidewalk the concrete was already hard... and the truck driver even told me that he had added a little more water as I had hard time screeding it :shocked: but I still save me a bunch of $$$ by doing it my self :laughing::laughing:... I want it in one pour but proly going to do 2x if not 3x :thumbsup:

 

[BeezFun]

can one guy (me) pour, screed and finish a 37'x20' patio?

No, but in this economy it's pretty easy to hire a finisher to come and do it for you. You can be his laborer, he'll tell you what to do and what concrete to order. Can't tell from the picture, but if you can't get a truck in there you'll need a couple laborers too.

 

[Rustyiron]

Short answer, NO.
Form it up so you can do it in sections. As you (me too) have found out what it's like to have concrete "get away" form you. No fun & poor results.

 

[dave1949]

No. It should have expansion breaks in it anyways, so as RustyIron says, make it easy on yourself and do it in sections.

Are you planning on putting something on top of the concrete, like tile? If not, I would consider dressing it up a bit with stamping.

Or, something you can do entirely yourself at your own pace is pavers. Probably a little more expensive overall than concrete, but looks 5 times better IMHO You already have some good looking, easy to match hard-scape in your retaining walls and steps, why not just continue?

 

[CurlyDave]

That is a huge area for one inexperienced man to pour and finish. Hire a finisher, he may have a helper who comes with him and let him be the lead on the project.

There are a few things you need to do before you pour & finish that area:

1. I would put down real rebar on either dobes or rebar chairs instead of the rusty 6-6-10 wire I see. That wire is going to be on the bottom of the concrete as soon as the finishing crew walks on it. If a finisher says he will hook it and pull it up as he goes, he is stretching the truth to the breaking point. I won't hire a finisher who makes that claim. If your finisher claims he will pull up the reinforcement, just smile and do it so he doesn't have to.

Do not ever underestimate the force that wet concrete will place on whatever you have under the rebar. I have seen it push dobes out from under bar, even when they were tie wired down. It happens in the blink of an eye, so fast that you might not even see it. But once it happens, the rebar, or the mesh, sinks to the bottom when it is walked on during finishing and is next to useless. Real rebar chairs are what the pros all use. It is worth looking around until you can find them.

2. Give a lot of thought to where the finished level of the concrete is going to be at those stairs, and also at the sliding glass door. Ask a building inspector what the rules are for the rise of that first step. A step has both a minimum and a maximum rise. If you add 4" of concrete to the step I see, you are going to have about 4" of rise, which may not be acceptable in your jurisdiction. A lot of places consider anything less than 6" to be a tripping hazard. If you are bootlegging this without a permit no one will check, but when it comes time to sell the house, a sharp-eyed home inspector may call this out as a problem. You do not want to have to re-work the patio at that time.

Same thing with the glass door. If it can possibly be used as a fire exit, there are rules on how big the elevation change can be from the inside floor to the patio. Also on how small the change can be. Find out what they are and be sure to comply. What is the requirement to prevent water from coming into the house?

3. What is the intended slope of the concrete patio? I should be ~ 1/4" per foot away from the house. If the retaining wall is level, I don't think there is enough slope away from the house. You may have to re-work that gravel bed.

4. The finisher may want you to have the concrete pumped in. Don't look on this as extra cost, look on it as insurance that the pour will go smoothly. A finisher and a pumper who have worked together in the past can place a lot of concrete in just the right amount in a very short time.

I don't mean to be critical, but the time to do something about potential problems is before you pour concrete, not after.

 

[Egon]

One man; the better half will not appreciate the results.

Two men; one who knows what to do with the chute and both in excellent shape it should pass the Wife's inspection.

Three men; two of whom know what to do and in excellent shape and it will get your wife's blessing. She may even rent you out for similar jobs in the neighbourhood!

You could try a higher strength concrete with low slump to defer setting times. Lower outside temperature will also hep. Not freezing mind you.

Forty five year old knowledge with no updates!

 

[SPIKER]

I agree with most all responses, NO not doable as a one man operation. I would call friends and ask co-workers for suggestions names of guys in your area. Stamping would make it look nice but takes some really experienced crews to do as well as the stamps. Rebar is good but not 100% required after all it is a patio have them add the FIBER reinforcement. a good sealer after pour (during cure) is needed outdoors and make sure to cover it if it is getting too cold or rain expected...

M

 

[boggen]

lots and lots of concrete, concrete truck will be need, and most likely quickly pay for itself, vs trying to even think about trying to manually mix concrete.

concrete finisher is going to be your life saver in getting a nice finished result. double check to make sure they have the tools needed.

having some extra laborers will pay off. they need to be in shape. concrete is not light by no means.

concrete only has so long before the initial cure time. having the extra workers, and a good finisher, will get things going and keep everything in X amount of time you have before concrete initially cures / sets up.

===========
water run off is a big deal, not enough slope, and water will pool up on the concrete, and in winter can turn to ice and cause problems with the surface of concrete.

expansion joints and rebar help control cracks.

having a good solid base below concrete is critical, as well.

dealing with run off water from the one hill in picture, get a french drain or pipe/s in to help deal with gutters and run off water from the hill. so water does not end up below the concrete. more so in winter.

consider possibly some sort of 1.5" to 3" drain/s in the patio. vs having to sweep / clean / spray / mop all the crud from edge of house clear across patio.

==============
get a pro in there, pay now, or pay more when things start going ugly in a year or 2 due to cracks.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Hire it done. Right now in my area I can get a finisher for $.65 per sq ft. $500 would get that job done. My finishers do everything. The set up the delivery, do the pour, then stick around and do the finish. I am responsible for prepping, removing the forms a day later, and doing the clean up and back fill.

Chris

 

[MarkV]

Hire it done. Right now in my area I can get a finisher for $.65 per sq ft. $500 would get that job done. My finishers do everything. The set up the delivery, do the pour, then stick around and do the finish. I am responsible for prepping, removing the forms a day later, and doing the clean up and back fill.

Chris

In my area it might be closer to $1.00 per foot, it is still worth the money. I spent a summer on a concrete crew when I was in college, I'm 60, this is not a one man job for an experienced concrete finisher.

MarkV

 

[rtimgray]

Of all the projects mentioned on TBN, for the life of me, I can't figure out why so many people on here are terrified of pouring concrete. I'll grant you it's hard work, but it's not brain surgery. The reason that some guys pour concrete for a living isn't because NASA's not hiring.

Having said that, not even I would attempt a 37' x 20' pour by myself. I would get at least two helpers, because you basically need two people on a screed and one with a rake leveling the pour as you go. If it was going to be poured on a hot day, I would want a 4th to start finishing with a bull float as soon as it was screeded - if it's cool, then 3 should be enough. Assuming 4" thickness, you're only talking about 9 or 10 yards, which should be on truck (at least in my area). If I were doing it, I would break it into two 10' wide pours and do them at separate times, making it actually pretty easy, as concrete goes.

Prices for pouring and finishing in my area seem to be about $1 to $1.25 per sq. ft., making this about a $750 to $1000 adder to cost of the concrete. That's enough for me to break a sweat for a few hours.

But in the end, you decide what your tolerance is, for both hard work and cash expenditure.

Good luck and take care.

 

[RDrancher]

Well thanks for the insult to all concrete guys there rtimgray. They're hiring brain surgeons at NASA now?

I've poured that much by myself before, but not by choice...the help didn't show up. As a concrete finisher by trade (retired) I'd say NO, don't try to do it by yourself. You'll get a much better finish by hiring a finisher and having him bring an experienced laborer or two along. And I will add that all finishers are not created equal. Hire a pro that puts his name on every slab he pours and you'll get a professional finish. Hire a butcher with a bucket full of cleavers and...well, you know.

Excellent points by CurlyDave and others.

Edited to add: Have the finisher come out and look at your form setup before he pours. There's nothing worse than showing up and having to change forms and set pins while the truck is idling out in the street.

 

[mickd]

NOTV8 You got some pretty good advice in the above replies, especially about getting experienced help. I did'nt notice where anyone mentioned that you can have your batch plant add retarder to the mix, that will give you more working time with the load,especially on hot dry days. An experienced finisher can tell you whether to add 1% or 2% depending on the weather, mix design,even the amount of help he has available. Adding water to the mix to gain working time is risky , too much will decrease the strength of the concrete and should not be used as a substitute for experienced workmen or additives designed for that purpose. Good luck with your pour.

 

[sdkubota]

There are chemical retarders that can be added to concrete that slows the initial set. However, once they have expired...it will get hard fast! Anyone that isn't familiar to working with concrete shouldn't even attempt it. It is far to tricky and difficult to get a nice finish. People that do it for a living make it look easy but believe me it is anything but. Hire professionals or you will pay for the concrete, pay to tear it out, and hire professionals to place it again.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

It may look like it, but finishing concrete is not like pouring plaster of Paris in a mold. Lots of things can go wrong, some of which may not show up for years. RDrancher and others above recommending experienced finishers are giving you the best advice.

 

[/pine]

You've already gotten good advice on making the pour...

What I didn't see or see mentioned is "expansion joint" along the existing slab/foundation...

also...without having a form all the way around you can't really screed it off for grade...a bull float is going to be paramount and I would run some strings and add grade stakes that get removed as the pour moves along...this will help avoid high spots and "bird-baths"...

 

[rtimgray]

To be fair, I should have said rocket science. I guess I switched metaphors in mid-paragraph. Although I did some checking, and it turns out NASA does have doctors and surgeons on staff for pre- and post-flight examinations. Whether brain surgery is their speciality, I don't know.

I also discovered that NASA also stands for Nueroscience And Spinal Associates, and they hire a lot of brain surgeons, but that wasn't the NASA I was talking about.

I didn't mean to specifically offend any concrete professionals, I just meant to emphasize the point that concrete work is probably more about physical work than anything else, not that there aren't some nuances and techniques that can both minimize effort and improve quality. By the same token, I probably wouldn't want someone who normally performs open-brain surgery to pour my driveway, although I could probably live with that. If I had a concrete finisher perform open-brain surgery, who knows....

...maybe I'd be better off.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

Good luck and take care.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Blisters, cracking, crazing, curling, delamination, discoloration, dusting, efflorescence, low spots, popouts, scaling, and spalling are the most common defects in a finished concrete surface. Now if you are just pouring a barn floor and don't care about the finish, pour it, screed it, and let it set up rough.

 

[EddieWalker]

Most everyone is giving you really good advice. Curly Dave really spelled it out and it 100% accurate in everything he said. Never rely on wire. It is impossible to walk on it, spread concrete and pull it up into the middle of the pad. GURANTEED!!!!

From what I can see, you have a real nice house. Don not ruin it or cut corners on something as important as what your patio looks like. A bad pour will look terrible. By yourself, without experience and a power trowel, you will end up with a mess. You wil also hurt yourself.

When I did my parents pad a couple months ago, I found a finish contrator on Angies List. I spoke to a dozen before hiring, and the guy with all the great reviews and recomendations on Angies list was the cheapest. I've been a General Contractor as my full time job for ten years and I've done this on the side my whole life. The guy I found on Angies List was the best I've ever seen. He charged .50 cents a square foot.

Eddie