Prices for Zero Turn Mowers

fabsroman · Mar 8, 2011

So, I went into the local John Deere dealer with my 2 kids and mom after picking up my daughter from pre-school. One salesman was busy with a customer and the other two were busy talking to each other while I was standing in the "show room". After the one salesman finished up with his customer, he actually asked to help me.

Anyway, I was there to get a price on a Z445 Zero Turn Mower and to look at tractors. The price he gave me on the Z445 was MSRP and he didn't even know about the rebate on the mower until I mentioned it.

Is this standard procedure on a Zero Turn Mower from John Deere? I have heard that there is some leeway in pricing on tractors, but is there no room for negotiation on the Zero Turn Mowers? If so, I'll just buy the thing. If not, I'll shop around. Not too sure I'll buy from these guys becasue not a single one of them asked to help me while I was looking at the 2000 and 3000 series tractors they had on the lot. FYI - I really like the 3720 that I saw on the lot and it is going to be on my wish list for the end of tax season 2012. Just need to focus on the Zero Turn Mower right now.

bigtiller · Mar 8, 2011

From reading here on TBN I have found it is a regional thing. Some guys say they are getting 15% off or more from MSRP while guys like me get to pay full price.

Carl_NH · Mar 8, 2011

Look around and you will find better deals likely. For example here is a link to JD 445 with some new and used. Will give you a good idea of what to pay.

JOHN DEERE Z445, Used JOHN DEERE Z445, JOHN DEERE Z445 For Sale At TractorHouse.com - Page 1

There are large dealers (typically in farm country) that may do better due to volume they sell..

Then you could always look at other brands, or going up a model size, or getting a leftover 3009/2010 model with a few hours is another choice.

BleedGreen · Mar 8, 2011

fabsroman said:
Anyway, I was there to get a price on a Z445 Zero Turn Mower and to look at tractors. The price he gave me on the Z445 was MSRP and he didn't even know about the rebate on the mower until I mentioned it.

Is this standard procedure on a Zero Turn Mower from John Deere? I have heard that there is some leeway in pricing on tractors, but is there no room for negotiation on the Zero Turn Mowers? If so, I'll just buy the thing. If not, I'll shop around.

The higher up you get in a specific product line (Z200 to Z400 to Z600; X300 to X500 to X700, etc) the more likely you will be to get a discount. As in most other products, the higher priced it is, the more room there will be for negotiation. Personally, all of our D100 (formerly LA100) and Z200 models are sold at MSRP - unless there is a rebate or something coming from Deere. Unfortunately there is not enough mark-up in these entry level products to give any kind of discount.

In regards to the Z445, see if you can find a 2010 Model as they still had the commercial grade powertrain (Kawasaki engine and Kanzaki DUP) while the 2011 models have the new Briggs commercial engine and the less desirable HydroGear ZT2800 transmissions. The $250.00 rebate you are referring to is available on both the 2010 and 2011 models.

I would like to apologize for some of my Deere "brothers"... We always try to at least greet a customer that comes in - even if we are working with someone else. At least then the customer has been acknowledged and does not feel like they are being ignored. That being said, some always fall through the cracks, but we really do try! On the subject of being ignored while two otherwise not busy salespeople converse with each other... There really is no excuse for that at all. From my experience (and from customer comments, online and in person) it tends to be worse at a larger Ag store that carries Turf products then it would be at a dedicated Turf store.

Also, the $250.00 rebate was just announced on the first of March (is it really March already???) so if the salesperson was not keeping up (which they of course should be!) with his bulletins, product news etc they may not have known about it - hopefully that was the case and they were not just hoping that YOU didnt know about it!

Wow. That was a little more long winded then I originally intended it to be!

BG

JDdude · Mar 8, 2011

Schiller Grounds Care make many of the zero turn units..

Take a look.. I have a Bunton, very pleased with it..

Schiller Grounds Care Inc.

fabsroman · Mar 8, 2011

BleedGreen said:
The higher up you get in a specific product line (Z200 to Z400 to Z600; X300 to X500 to X700, etc) the more likely you will be to get a discount. As in most other products, the higher priced it is, the more room there will be for negotiation. Personally, all of our D100 (formerly LA100) and Z200 models are sold at MSRP - unless there is a rebate or something coming from Deere. Unfortunately there is not enough mark-up in these entry level products to give any kind of discount.

In regards to the Z445, see if you can find a 2010 Model as they still had the commercial grade powertrain (Kawasaki engine and Kanzaki DUP) while the 2011 models have the new Briggs commercial engine and the less desirable HydroGear ZT2800 transmissions. The $250.00 rebate you are referring to is available on both the 2010 and 2011 models.

I would like to apologize for some of my Deere "brothers"... We always try to at least greet a customer that comes in - even if we are working with someone else. At least then the customer has been acknowledged and does not feel like they are being ignored. That being said, some always fall through the cracks, but we really do try! On the subject of being ignored while two otherwise not busy salespeople converse with each other... There really is no excuse for that at all. From my experience (and from customer comments, online and in person) it tends to be worse at a larger Ag store that carries Turf products then it would be at a dedicated Turf store.

Also, the $250.00 rebate was just announced on the first of March (is it really March already???) so if the salesperson was not keeping up (which they of course should be!) with his bulletins, product news etc they may not have known about it - hopefully that was the case and they were not just hoping that YOU didnt know about it!

Wow. That was a little more long winded then I originally intended it to be!

BG

Thanks for the response. The longer winded the better, because it gives me more to chew on. Now, if I can just find an unsold 2010 Z445 in the Maryland area. Don't even mind taking the truck a little ways to pick it up. However, finding used equipment in Maryland is like pulling teeth.

FYI - I was really surprised with the level of service at that dealership, but it is the first time that I have ever been looking to buy lawn/farm care equipment and I have no idea what to really expect. Figured it would be kind of like buying a car where the salespeople really want to make the sale. Bought enough cars to know how that process usually goes. Maybe I am wrong about the zero turn mower and tractor selling process.

jimjo2 · Mar 8, 2011

I highly recommend that what every you buy you try on YOUR lawn before you write the check. I made a $11,000 mistake with the zero turn I bought and ended up buying a 2320 to do the job.

fabsroman · Mar 8, 2011

jimjo2 said:
I highly recommend that what every you buy you try on YOUR lawn before you write the check. I made a $11,000 mistake with the zero turn I bought and ended up buying a 2320 to do the job.

If you don't mind me asking, why was the zero turn a mistake for you? Were you unable to mow the grass with it for some reason? Why did you end up going with the 2320 in lieu of the zero turn?

$11,000 for a zero turn? I'm assuming that you bought one of the professional grade models. Plus, it really wasn't an $11,000 mistake unless you destroyed the mower. I am assuming that you were able to either sell it or trade it in on the tractor.

As of right now, and based upon other advise I received in another thread I started on here, the plan is to buy the mower right now to mow the grass and then to buy a 3520 or 3720 next year to deal with real chores around the house and at a friend's 120 acre farm 6 miles down the road. I was initially looking at something like the 2520, but after looking them over at the dealer yesterday, I really fell in love with the 3720. Gives me a saving goal for this time next year.

fabsroman · Mar 9, 2011

BleedGreen said:
The higher up you get in a specific product line (Z200 to Z400 to Z600; X300 to X500 to X700, etc) the more likely you will be to get a discount. As in most other products, the higher priced it is, the more room there will be for negotiation. Personally, all of our D100 (formerly LA100) and Z200 models are sold at MSRP - unless there is a rebate or something coming from Deere. Unfortunately there is not enough mark-up in these entry level products to give any kind of discount.

In regards to the Z445, see if you can find a 2010 Model as they still had the commercial grade powertrain (Kawasaki engine and Kanzaki DUP) while the 2011 models have the new Briggs commercial engine and the less desirable HydroGear ZT2800 transmissions. The $250.00 rebate you are referring to is available on both the 2010 and 2011 models.

I would like to apologize for some of my Deere "brothers"... We always try to at least greet a customer that comes in - even if we are working with someone else. At least then the customer has been acknowledged and does not feel like they are being ignored. That being said, some always fall through the cracks, but we really do try! On the subject of being ignored while two otherwise not busy salespeople converse with each other... There really is no excuse for that at all. From my experience (and from customer comments, online and in person) it tends to be worse at a larger Ag store that carries Turf products then it would be at a dedicated Turf store.

Also, the $250.00 rebate was just announced on the first of March (is it really March already???) so if the salesperson was not keeping up (which they of course should be!) with his bulletins, product news etc they may not have known about it - hopefully that was the case and they were not just hoping that YOU didnt know about it!

Wow. That was a little more long winded then I originally intended it to be!

BG

Found a 2011 model with the 2010 tranny and engine in it. The salesman that called me said he had a 2011 on the lot that must have been left over from 2010 stock because it has the Kawasaki engine and Kanzaki DUP tranny in it. He told me that he is pretty sure it is a 2010 model dressed up like a 2011, because the serial number looks like the old 2010 serial number and the 2011 serial numbers for the Z445 are completely different when compared to the 2010. That was the only one they had out of their 5 locations and he wasn't willing to budge on price. However, it did qualify for the $250 rebate. Paid $100 more for it than an actual 2011 at $4,849, but bought it anyway. Figure $100, or whatever I might get off of MSRP on an actual Z445, just isn't worth it. Final price to me after rebate, tax, and delivery to my door is $4,988 and I am alright with it IF it is as described.

Now, I think I can tell the difference between a Briggs engine and a Kawasaki engine pretty easily. However, how can I tell the difference between the two transmissions?

The only problem I can see in the future is trying to buy parts for it. I'll just have to tell the parts guy it is a 2010 and hopefully that will work. Otherwise, I'll tell him it is a 2011 when the part doesn't look right.

Carl_NH · Mar 9, 2011

fabsroman,

The Kawasaki engines are easy to ID of course.. I have the 25HP Kawasaki FH721 series engine and its a great engine on my Ferris IS 2000.

For the drive motors, the Hydrogear 2800 is a one piece pump and wheel motor all in one for each drive wheel. Google this and you will see a pic.

Your unit will have 2 belt driven hydro pumps - Kanzaki 10CC under the seat with fans on the top, then hoses going to each wheel motor which are Parker wheel motors.

Parts are no issue as they go by S/N and there are many out there with these pumps, motors now. The other parts should be the same - belts, blades etc

Good luck and take some pics when you get it!

JDdude · Mar 10, 2011

I have those 2800 hydros on m bunton and they work fine..what is the issue with them? I know the difference in it and wheel motors..Just wondering what is the issue with the Hydro gear units..

thanks in advance.

fabsroman · Mar 10, 2011

JDdude said:
I have those 2800 hydros on m bunton and they work fine..what is the issue with them? I know the difference in it and wheel motors..Just wondering what is the issue with the Hydro gear units..

thanks in advance.

There probably isn't any issue with them. However, there is also probably a reason why the higher level John Deere residential mowers are offered with the Kanzaki DUP in lieu of the hydro gear 2800.

I am sure the hydro gear 2800 will work just fine for a long time. Look at me, now I am ryhming.

Carl_NH · Mar 10, 2011

With separate pumps and wheel motors you can replace one that fails, with the single piece you are looking at one large expensive piece I beleive. Most all if not all the commercial duty ZTR I have seen have them separate.

The pumps and motors are roughly $4-500 each and I have to believe the single units are close to $1000 if not more.

I know on the Cub forum some of the single all in one units (not sure the brand) were failing at 2-300 hours or so and are $$ to replace.

I agree there is a reason for separating these components - sort of best of breed components for the job maybe? Other aspects Heat, Serviceability, adjustments, tuning, with the separate units you can use one pump and different motors depending on the size of the unit - more flexibility.

fabsroman · Mar 10, 2011

Carl_NH said:
With separate pumps and wheel motors you can replace one that fails, with the single piece you are looking at one large expensive piece I beleive. Most all if not all the commercial duty ZTR I have seen have them separate.

The pumps and motors are roughly $4-500 each and I have to believe the single units are close to $1000 if not more.

I know on the Cub forum some of the single all in one units (not sure the brand) were failing at 2-300 hours or so and are $$ to replace.

I agree there is a reason for separating these components - sort of best of breed components for the job maybe? Other aspects Heat, Serviceability, adjustments, tuning, with the separate units you can use one pump and different motors depending on the size of the unit - more flexibility.

If anything on my mower fails after 200 to 300 hours, I will not be a happy man. I am a stickler for maintenance and reflect on longevity and ease of use/maintenance of a product when I think about how good my purchase was.

I am also hoping that it takes me 20 years to get 200 to 300 hours on this mower, but who knows.

JDdude · Mar 10, 2011

the Hydro Gear units are made close to where I live..The seperate units are better I agree and the Cub Cadet models in question that bail in 2-300 does not have filter and other updates.

Engine_Tech · Mar 11, 2011

JDdude said:
the Hydro Gear units are made close to where I live..The seperate units are better I agree and the Cub Cadet models in question that bail in 2-300 does not have filter and other updates.

The Cubs that are having problems are using the EZT model Hydro-Gear on the large HP and 50" decks - way under spec for that kind of usage.

The ZT2800 is still a commercial rated trans and will be fine even in a large residential application.

fabsroman · Mar 12, 2011

The dealer got the mower in yesterday and I went to look at it and pay for it today. Got to play around a little on it at the dealership. Man, this thing is going to make mowing the grass a heck of a lot easier than it was when I mowed my parents 2/3 acre lawn with a self propelled push mower. It is just insane to think that ride on mowers are like this nowadays, but it is a good insanity because I don't get too excited about mowing the lawn. For me, mowing the lawn is just above getting a cavity filled. It is a necessary evil.

Looked under the seat and it is indeed the Kanzaki DUP with the Parker wheel motors, and the Kawazaki engine on the rear. They are delivering it Wednesday morning and I will post some pics when I get it here.

Carl_NH · Mar 13, 2011

Excellent - glad you got exactly what you wanted - I bet you were grinning ear to ear when driving it the first time. It makes mowing fun again..

It does take some time to master the turning with out divots but you will get used to this and enjoy your new machine I am sure.

Do post some pics..

fabsroman · Mar 13, 2011

Carl_NH said:
Excellent - glad you got exactly what you wanted - I bet you were grinning ear to ear when driving it the first time. It makes mowing fun again..

It does take some time to master the turning with out divots but you will get used to this and enjoy your new machine I am sure.

Do post some pics..

Mowing will be fun for all of the first year, maybe. Kind of like saying that getting a new car makes it fun to drive in traffic again. The mower just makes doing the chore a lot easier and a lot quicker so I can get back to the things I really enjoy, like my wife & kids, hunting, shooting, fishing, and cycling. I get some enjoyment in working on the house and the cars and equipment, but more so from the wife, kids, hunting, shooting, fishing, and cycling, and BSing with friends and on chatboards versus what I get from maintaining/remodeling the house and maintaining/fixing the vehicles and equipment. Luckily, I don't completely hate the latter.

With all that said, I sure was smiling when I got to ride the mower.