Prince log splitter valve

[mx842]

I built a splitter about 25 years ago.........holy cr@p am I that old already???? Anyway it has split hundreds of cords of wood over the years but I have always felt it didn't produce the pressure it should. I played around with the adjustments but never could get it to work right but at one setting so I just let it go and used it like it was. It splits just about everything I need it to but sometimes when you get a knotted piece it just sticks into the wood and then it's heck to get the wedge out. I then have to look over the piece of wood and look for signs of weakness to go after and after a little fighting I can usually get it into pieces that will go into my stove.

Before I started to use it this year I decided to rework some parts that over the years have been bent up from use and add a filter to the unit. I mean I've been using it for over 20 years and never had any problems and I know enough about equipment to not mess with something if it ain't broke but I figured while I was at it I would go ahead and put one on while I was reworking the pusher block. As fate would have it the splitter didn't like the filter and I re-plumbed it several times but never could get it to act right with it on so I took it off. About that time I also decided to change the fluid because it had been in there for so long. I had dextron transmission fluid in the unit all that time and when I changed it I couldn't afford to put that back in there so I bought a 5 gal pail of hydraulic fluid from tractor supply. I cranked it up and worked the unit for about an hour and cut it off because it was to hot that day to mess with splitting wood and covered it up and waited for cooler days to come before the real splitting started.

Last week it was cool and I got the wood splitting fever but before I started splitting I decided to build me a little wood holding table to help deal with the wood as I was splitting. This was something I had planned to do every since I first built the thing but it seems like once I start splitting that's it and once the wood is split for the next year it get put in the shed and forgotten about until the next time I want to use it. I took a day and made part of the table and some friends came over so I decided to take advantage of them and do some splitting while I had the help. This is where the problem started.

I wanted to start the machine and work the ram to see if it had plenty of clearance between the ram and the new wood table and I grabbed the pull rope and gave it a big ol yank and I thought I I had pulled my arm out of joint because the motor was locked up....or so I thought at the time. After thinking and looking at the oil in the motor to see if it was full I got to thinking that it couldn't be that the motor had all of a sudden locked up because that old Briggs motor had always started on the second pull and it ran so good the last time I used it. I had a pipe wrench laying on my tool tray and put it on the output shaft and tried to turn the motor over but it was so locked it wouldn't budge. I thought about it for a minute and decided to give it another try with a pipe wrench that was a little larger and that time it moved ever so slowly and after a little bit I could pull the start rope enough to get it to start. It would start then cut right back off. Then I looked at the control valve and tried to move the lever and it was stuck shut and would not move. I loosened a hyd line to bleed off a little pressure and then it was free and would move in both directions but as soon as I started the motor and worked the ram out it didn't have any detent or bypass what ever the term is, and it would cut the motor off as soon as the cylinder was all the way out. If I caught the travel just before it got full extended it would reverse direction and then cut off again as soon as it was fully retracted.

I took the detent valve out and cleaned all the parts and put it back in and it worked about two cycles and then locked up again. I have been looking for a parts kit every since but my searching skills are the pits and I can't seem to find any parts kits. I went to harbor freight yesterday hoping they might have them but the guy that waited on me was clueless about anything hydraulic so I just picked up another valve rather than mess with this one right now but I would like to get this one working to use somewhere else if needed. Does anyone know where or if parts kits are available. It seems to me I have seen something like this on ebay but I couldn't find anything like that when I looked this time.

I was also wondering if changing the oil like I did may have caused it to screw up or if it was just time for it to go. When I looked at the parts that were inside the valve they looked ok and everything seemed to be like they should although I don't remember seeing a ball in the mix anywhere maybe I just didn't get all the parts out when I took the parts out. I was hoping there would be a parts list in the new valve but there was nothing in the box but it had been opened and sealed back up.

 

[J_J]

As far as taking the splitter valve apart, you have to have the parts layout to be sure you have removed everything and then throughly clean everything and replace bad parts.

What brand is the new valve?

Here is the Prince log splitter valve.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/catalog/ValvesLsRd25.pdf

Here is the log splitter valve from Energy.

http://www.energymfg.com/online-catalog/log-splitter-valve-accessories.html

There is no reason that a new filter housing and a 10 to 25 micron return filter should not work as long as you install the filter housing correctly.

 

[mx842]

As far as taking the splitter valve apart, you have to have the parts layout to be sure you have removed everything and then throughly clean everything and replace bad parts.

What brand is the new valve?

Here is the Prince log splitter valve.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/catalog/ValvesLsRd25.pdf

Here is the log splitter valve from Energy.

Log Splitter Valve and Accessories by Energy® Manufacturing Company, Inc.

There is no reason for a new filter housing and a 10 to 25 micron return filter should not work as long as you install the filter housing correctly.

I did a little more digging and I found out what happened. I don't know how but the hyd tank had a bunch of crud in the bottom of it. When I pulled out the pressure release detent cartridge out the first time everything looked clean and I didn't see any signs of abnormal wear but I don't think I got all of the pieces out because I never saw a steel ball. I didn't have anything to go by then so I put it back together like it was so I didn't screw up anything else. I went back over to Northern yesterday and they found a picture diagram so I can see just what is in there.

As I was removing the hoses on the old valve that is when I started to find all the junk that had contaminated the hyd oil. It looked like mud and when you moved it around between your fingers it had a gritty feel to it. I pulled the bottom hose off and let all the oil drain out in a clean pan and could see that there was all kinds of stuff in there that settled to the bottom.

My hydraulic tank is my axle and it is made out of a piece of 5x5 box tube. I cut two holes in the top to put my vent and return and the outlet I had to put on the side of the box tube rather than the bottom because there was not enough ground clearance to come out of the bottom. I placed the outlet as low to the bottom as I could get it and was worried at first it may be too high in the tank to supply enough oil but it has worked like that for 25 years or more without any trouble I guess because the box tube had plenty of capacity to hold enough oil even though the pickup was an inch or more off the bottom. When I built the machine I was worried that the way I did this it didn't allow me to put a suction screen in the pickup so I bought a high dollar suction line filter to go inbetween the tank and the pump but it never worked even though it was for use in the suction line so I took it off and ran it that way for all this time without any trouble.

Yesterday I flipped the splitter up sideways so I could get to the bottom of the axle tank so I could cut a hole in it to clean it out and then put a bottom drain in with a suction screen like it should have been done from the start. I made a fitting that was shorter to come out of the bottom so it it didn't hang down too far and I plan on placing some sort of guard around it to keep stuff from knocking the hose off. Once I got a big hole in the bottom I could see all the junk inside that had built up over time and I got as much out as I could and once I get a bung welded on so I can plug it off I'll fill it half full of some king of cleaner, gas, paint thinner, degreaser what ever I can find and run it up and down the highway a few miles to slosh it around and hopefully loosen all that junk up so it will all come out when I drain it. My biggest worry is all the junk that may be still in the cylinder and pump. I took off all the hoses and cleaned them but the cylinder has to have junk in it too. Hopefully I will be able to flush it out without it costing too much with lost fluid.

Oh I got the same valve that was on it from the start only I got the one with the 3/4 work ports this time in case I want to put a bigger cylinder on the machine later on.

 

[J_J]

You really don't want to have your suction tube on the bottom, about 2 in up from the bottom.

If you do have a bottom fitting now, can you add an extension to the inside of the fitting to raise the top of the suction tube about 2 in off the bottom.

The small crud will settle on the bottom.

 

[mx842]

You really don't want to have your suction tube on the bottom, about 2 in up from the bottom.

If you do have a bottom fitting now, can you add an extension to the inside of the fitting to raise the top of the suction tube about 2 in off the bottom.

The small crud will settle on the bottom.

Yeah I should be able to come up with something that won't cut the diameter down to much. Also I found out how all that crud got into the tank. I can't believe I am admitting I did this though. I found two cans of hydraulic fluid I had in storage and one was unopened and the other was about half full. When I decided to change the fluid in the splitter I remembered where the two buckets were and dug them out and brought them up to the house. I remembered it took less than 5 gals to fill the the system up so I decided to use the opened bottle and top it off with the new can. I opened the cap and looked at the oil and it looked like it was new and smelled new so I dumped it in. Normally I would strain anything that comes out of a half open can but I was in a hurry and dumped it in the tank. I didn't see any big pieces or any pieces of trash as I poured it in the tank so I figured all was good.

After I discovered that there was trash in the tank and trying to figure out where it came from I just figured it was just junk from the inside of the tank that had over time worked it's way to the bottom. This morning I had to go to the doctor and on the way it hit me where the junk came from. Several years ago a guy brought me a piece of equipment to work on where he had put the wrong oil in his hyd tank and wanted me to pump it out and put the right stuff back in it. I did just that and somehow that half 5 gal can was the first stuff that came out of the tank and it had a lot of trash in it. I screened the rest of it to make sure it didn't have any junk in it for use later on, I mean it was brand new and had been filtered so I didn't see any problem reusing it to top off the hydraulics on the splitter. I used that whole 5 gal can in something and I thought I had thrown the half a can in the fire barrel but I guess I didn't. I bought a new pail later on and sit it next to that trashy can and some two years later I ended up trashing my splitter. The thing is I know better than to use anything out of a used can but I guess old age and being broke is getting the best of me.LOL At least now I know what happened and maybe if I can find the rebuild kits to go through the circuits in the old valve hopefully I can fix it for a spare. I just hope it didn't mess up the pump and cylinder.

 

[mx842]

I just came in from working on the splitter all afternoon. It was worst than I thought now I'm wondering if I don't have an enemy somewhere that paid me a visit and filled my tank with dirt and who knows what else. The sludge in the bottom of the tank looks like sandy red clay soil with a fair amount of course sand mix. It also has a very sticky feel like kayro syrup when wet but when it dries a little it is like glue. I even went out to the trash barrel and looked in the 5 gal pail that the oil I used was in and it did have some trashy residue in the bottom of the can it looked nothing like the stuff in the bottom of the hyd tank.

I'm wondering now if I have anything left at all because as I said the pump and cylinder have to be full of this same junk and now am wondering if it can ever be flushed out without ruining my brand new valve in the process. I'm thinking now I might put the old valve back on and put some real light oil in the tank and just let it run through the system for an hour or two in hopes it will clean out most of the left over stuff. I could put the filter back on and hope it catches most of what is left in the system before I put the new valve back on. I wonder what else I could run through it to help loosen up the chunks so they could be filtered out by the filter.

I flushed out the tank by putting a gal of gas in it then running it around the block a few times to slosh it all around. I did that 4 times and I was still getting sand, gravel and sticky muddy looking crud in the pail I drained it in. I could run my finger inside the tank and I could still feel a layer on the bottom. I then took about 1/4 of a gallon of simple green and added a gal of warm water to it and dumped that into the tank and made a few laps and after about two times of this the tank now looks clean. I may try that one more time tomorrow then heat the tank with the torch to help dry it out then try running some clean oil through it to see what happens. The simple green seemed to do a better job of cutting through the crud than the gas did.

 

[Leejohn]

I tell you something you could try. It's works for me on cleaning parts and it's white wall cleaner. I mix 1 cup pr qt. for my spray bottle. For your job I would mix like 50/50 and only leave it in for 1/2 hr. Drive it around like you did before. The 1 cup pr qt. well even remove some paints. I know what you are thinking, but it does work good on most of stuff I have used it on. I only leave the mix I use on a painted surface for about 10 min. After you use it you well find all kind of stuff it well clean, on the other stuff go light on the mix. You can buy it in 5gal pale for any auto parts.

 

[mx842]

I tell you something you could try. It's works for me on cleaning parts and it's white wall cleaner. I mix 1 cup pr qt. for my spray bottle. For your job I would mix like 50/50 and only leave it in for 1/2 hr. Drive it around like you did before. The 1 cup pr qt. well even remove some paints. I know what you are thinking, but it does work good on most of stuff I have used it on. I only leave the mix I use on a painted surface for about 10 min. After you use it you well find all kind of stuff it well clean, on the other stuff go light on the mix. You can buy it in 5gal pale for any auto parts.

Thanks, but I think I have the tank all clean what I want to do now is somehow flush out all the crud that may be lurking in the other parts of the system, pump and cylinder mainly without having to take them all apart. I don't know how those parts would react to filling the tank with the simple green solution and running the splitter through a few cycles.LOL I may just get a couple gals of ATF fluid and cycle it through the pump and cylinder into a clean bucket to see what comes out. Hopefully after doing this a few times I can get most of the sticky stuff loosened up enough that it will pass through the system then put it to work and hope the filter will catch the rest.

 

[mx842]

Yesterday I spent most of the day taking the old valve apart trying to clean out all the sticky gook out of all the small nooks and cranny's and freeing up all the tiny valves that make the valve work. I don't know what the heck this stuff was that got in the system but it glued all the little moveable parts in their seats and they were almost impossible to get out without destroying them or the valve body. At one point I was almost ready to chunk it in the trash but kept at it until I finally got all the tiny parts out and cleaned up. The spool valve was stuck so tight I had to use a hammer and punch to get it all the way out and at this point I figured It was trash but once I got it out it looked pretty good all of the shinny stuff was still on the spool accept in a couple small spots but I think that was just porosity. Also I mentioned that I didn't see the detent ball when I first took it apart. I didn't see it because it was gone. I guess when I first found out that everything was stuck and everything was frozen in place and I forced the handle to move the ball rode up onto the detent sleeve and went sailing somewhere else. The detent sleeve was frozen to the spool shaft and when I first looked at it I thought it was part of the spool shaft but after looking at the parts diagram I could see it was a separate part and I was able to put a little heat on it to get it free. The detent sleeve had a little dimple on it where the detent ball passed over it but hopefully it will be ok now that the sleeve is free to move. The hardest part of the whole deal was getting the valve body clean and all the grooves where the spool valve works back and forth cleaned out. I tried soaking it in, varsol, kerosene, gas, paint thinner, Methyl ketone, and nothing would loosen it enough to where I could flush it out. Finally I decided to put the valve body in a pan of hot water and dawn dish washing detergent then put it on the stove and heated it to almost a boil and let it sit for about 15 minutes taking it out every now and then to run a shotgun cleaning brush through the bore to loosen up the goo and finally I got it clean.

Now what to do about a detent ball so I can put this back together and run it to flush out all the junk that is still through out the system. I had a few ball bearings laying around and I knocked the balls out of the races until I found one that would work. Some were too big and some were too small and I was about to give up and throw in the towel when I found an old wheel that came off an old tool box that had ball bearings in it so it could swivel under a load and I said what the heck it's worth a try and I beat on it until balls were flying and tried one of those and it fit like a glove. I put it all back together and hooked everything up and was ready for a test run. The cylinder was holding the largest amount of bad material and I figured I could take the hose off that end of the cylinder and let that junk pump into a junk can while opening the valve for the other end of the cylinder and as that end filled it would push the oil out of the other end and into the trash tank. That worked out pretty good and I captured a great portion of the real messy stuff but even after draining and flushing all the lines, cleaning the tank, purging the cylinder, installing a new filter a bunch of the goo found it's way back into the tank and after only a few minutes the screen I put in the outlet port of the tank got so clogged it was starving the pump so I had to shut down, drain the tank to remove the screen so I could clean it out. Then it was back to the store to pick up another $30.00 worth of transmission fluid so I could finish flushing the system.

J-J mentioned not letting the pickup be right on the bottom so to fix this I cut the fine mesh screen that was on the strainer off about 1/4 of the way up into the tank. The strainer had two wire mesh screens one fine and one was course but it would keep any large pieces from leaving and going to the pump. I left the fine screen on part of it at the bottom and that would catch the smaller stuff but still allow full flow at the higher level. I hooked it back up and ran it working the control back and forth for about an hour trying to get some heat in the system and hopefully loosening up any other junk in the system so the filter could catch it as it passes through. Hopefully today I can get all the goo out of the whole system then I can work on the pump the pressure relief valve is stuck in full pressure mode and hopefully once I get that working I can split some wood.

 

[mx842]

Who farking ray!! I finally got it all flushed out and working again. It's not all finished yet but I did take it out to the wood pile and give it a good work out. I split about a cord of wood to give it enough time to get good and warm so that anything left behind in the cylinder would hopefully free up and get caught in the filter. I still have to re-plumb a few things, I need a new suction line because the one on there is now too short because of having to take it off so many times flushing the tank out. The hose that is on there will not come off without cutting it once it goes over the hose barb. I want to change that and put a swivel fitting down at the tank so it will be easier to take off if I ever want to drain the tank. Right now I have a grey plastic hose barb on there because that was all I had when I moved the drain to the bottom.

I planned on putting the new valve on the machine once it was all clean but now I may just let the old one stay on there and keep the new one for a spare because the old one is working so well now. I was worried about the detent ball I used not being the right size and causing trouble but the dang thing works better than it ever did like it is. Yesterday I cleaned out the pump valves also and flushed the pump the best I could and I had to beat the valves and ball out of that too. I got all of that stuff freed up and that too now works as well as it ever did. Actually it may be a little better because I now can get 3000 lbs out of the pump where I never could get much more than 2450 to 2500 lbs out of it before no matter how I adjusted it. I'm going to run it one more time to get it good and hot then drain and flush everything again, then put on a new filter and re-fill it with fresh oil to finish the project off.

The more I think about it the more I think someone salted my tank. I have heard of people putting sugar in peoples gas tank and often wondered just what that did to a motor. The stuff that was in there looked like a red sand and mud mixture. It also had a real sticky feel to it while it was liquid but once it got into a place like in the different valves and small passage ways where it could dry out it got hard just like glue. If I did pizz someone off bad enough for them to want to do this to me I sure hope they feel that what they did was full payment for what I did to them and not just partial payment.......LOL, I don't think I could stand too much more of that kind of payment.