propane auto switch backup generator

Michelle K linnane · Dec 21, 2011

Hi Guys
I have decided once I get the money I will have a propane backup generator but in. I have an electric stove which came with my house and this summer will take my electric from house and install in my kennel. I have normally always had gas and like it more. This will free up some room on my already full electric panel box. Should free two slots.
When I have the stove installed I will run the gas lines for generator and the stove and size tanks accordingly.
Friends of mine are having a local electrical contractor guy do a generator for them they are getting a 14,000 watt Generac Guardian generator and the installed price is $5500. I found the same generator they are getting on amazon for $2,800 with the transfer switch. I am assuming the contractor can get it cheaper then you can buy on amazon, or at least you would think he would. My friends prepared the pad and they are getting the propane hooked up, they even used their tractor to unload from his truck. So he came one Saturday and was there from 8:30am to about 12:30 4 hours worth of work. I have watched the you tube install video I am not expert but does not seem that hard for someone who knows electrical work.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fow7yyNiiGo&feature=related]Guardian Generator Installation (1 of 3) - YouTube[/ame]

It seems like the generator comes with almost everything you need to do install. So basically he charged a minimum of $2700 for 4 hours labor. He still has not given them an itemized bill. This seems terrible high to me. Even of the contractor gets $80 and hour
for 4 hours or 4 1/2 it would it cost $360 for install, man $2700 seems very high to me for 4 1/2 hours worth of work.

I am sure many people have gas generators. But I often travel and would want it automatic incase the power goes out while I a not home. So I am not really that curious about the gas generators just the propane.

I am curious have any of you installed your own propane backup generator?

If you had it done how long did it take and what was the labor costs if you do not mind sharing the info?

Mickey_Fx · Dec 21, 2011

Can't help you with cost info but hope you are aware that the ability of propane to vaporize is very dependent upon temp and surface area of the propane.

Checking on the Yamaha site they have a chart to help size a tank. Per their info, you can't run one of their 6-7kW gennys full power on a 400 gal tank @ 20° F. Don't get caught with an undersized tank.

Son recently replaced an electric stove with a propane model. The 100-120 gal tank he had installed will last several yrs for the stove but no where as large as a generator would require.

Craig Clayton · Dec 21, 2011

I am in the electrical trade and I have looked at doing generators on the side ,but I am too busy working full time.I will explain my thoughts the about backup power supply sizing.

You can not compete with the supply authority for available Amps ie you need 100 amps and they have it, you only need 15amps and that is all that is supplied.
The term Load Shedding means to reduce the power demand, this is done by turning off what is not needed.
If have a life style that requires almost everything available then the contractor will supply a larger generator ( Do you really need it? ).
If you are in power outage situation how big and how far reaching is it.
If you run a smaller generator and have selected by way of a transfer panel / switch then your load is much smaller.
You might then have available only furnace , sump, and the main ligting circuit.
The advantage of a smaller generator is it uses that very precious STORED fuel slowly, ie meaning you can run longer.
If you get caught and forget to top up the stored fuel and the power goes out you will be load shedding right away to conserve the fuel.
If you are on a gas main no problem.
It is easier in the business to supply a bigger generator because the customer will always be happy, instead of the contractor trying to talk the customer down in size.
In business if there is a 10% markup on a $5,000.00 job or a 10% markup on a $2,500.00 job.
What I have studied about propane is there a draw rate vs temperature for stored fuel
ie when it is very cold there is less available propane in the stored cylinder.
Pressure and Volume and Temperature formulas.

Craig Clayton

msb1766 · Dec 21, 2011

I had a GE 15KW gernerator installed at my house a few months ago.
I paid $6200, that price was for the generator, setup and them running the wires to the auto transfer panel and to the items we wanted to load shed and electrical inspection. I had the propane company come out and set another 120 gallon propane tank and they ran the propane lines from both tanks to the generator, this was $400.
It took the generator guys about a full day from start to finish, the propane tank setup and run the line took about 1/2 a day.
Just make sure if you do your own install that you follow the all the codes for your area.
Have you bought the generator yet?
I talked to the guy that did mine yesterday and he said that the orders he placed a month ago were backordered about a month. Both GE and Generac could not keep up with the demand.

RickB · Dec 21, 2011

Michelle K linnane said:
Hi Guys
I have decided once I get the money I will have a propane backup generator but in. I have an electric stove which came with my house and this summer will take my electric from house and install in my kennel. I have normally always had gas and like it more. This will free up some room on my already full electric panel box. Should free two slots.
When I have the stove installed I will run the gas lines for generator and the stove and size tanks accordingly.
Friends of mine are having a local electrical contractor guy do a generator for them they are getting a 14,000 watt Generac Guardian generator and the installed price is $5500. I found the same generator they are getting on amazon for $2,800 with the transfer switch. I am assuming the contractor can get it cheaper then you can buy on amazon, or at least you would think he would. My friends prepared the pad and they are getting the propane hooked up, they even used their tractor to unload from his truck. So he came one Saturday and was there from 8:30am to about 12:30 4 hours worth of work. I have watched the you tube install video I am not expert but does not seem that hard for someone who knows electrical work.

Guardian Generator Installation (1 of 3) - YouTube

It seems like the generator comes with almost everything you need to do install. So basically he charged a minimum of $2700 for 4 hours labor. He still has not given them an itemized bill. This seems terrible high to me. Even of the contractor gets $80 and hour
for 4 hours or 4 1/2 it would it cost $360 for install, man $2700 seems very high to me for 4 1/2 hours worth of work.

I am sure many people have gas generators. But I often travel and would want it automatic incase the power goes out while I a not home. So I am not really that curious about the gas generators just the propane.

I am curious have any of you installed your own propane backup generator?

If you had it done how long did it take and what was the labor costs if you do not mind sharing the info?

Do not assume that generator dealers buy gensets cheaper than you and I can online. My local electrician/low-volume Generac dealer can buy identical units online cheaper than he can from Generac. I am in the process of having a 15K Briggs & Stratton unit installed at my parents' place. Cost for the unit and professional electrical hookup will be about $4600 exclusive of the propane equipment installation.
The info Mickey_Fx posted concerning propane vaporization runs contrary to info I recieved from 3 different established and respected propane suppliers in my area. 2 wanted to install two 100 gal tanks and one quoted a single 250 gallon tank to supply the 15K unit. Tanks were sized to allow sufficient vaporization at 0 degrees F.
I found this vaporization chart:
http://qualitypropanemn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Vaporization-chart.pdf

Toyboy · Dec 21, 2011

$5500 for a 14kw seems high to me. I just had a 20kw installed, running NG for $5100. That will cover the whole house and detached garage, Transfer switch is on the outside and I didn't have to do any circuit selecting. I'm fortunate because I have gas stove, water heaters, and boilers. Well, septic pump, 2 fridges and a freezer and AC will be my main draw. Lights, TV, computers etc are minimal. One thing anyone that planes an using NG for fuel needs to do, is have the NG supplier come out and install a larger flow gas meter. They do it for free and you don't have to worry about starving for fuel

Briar Hill Brittanys · Dec 21, 2011

In January of 2007, an ice storm knocked out our power for 12 days. The next year, a smaller ice storm had our power off for 12 hours. When we moved to our current home in April of 2008 we installed a 20kw Seimens (Generac) with an SE rated automatic transfer switch, and never looked back. No worrying about load handling, fuel storage, extension cords, etc. Upon power loss of more than 45 seconds, unit starts, stabilizes, and transfer switch AUTOMATICALLY transfers to generator power. Upon return of grid power, transfer switch AUTOMATICALLY transfers to grid power, unit goes through a 2 minute cool down cycle, and shuts down. It has an automatic exercise mode. Every Monday at 8:00 AM, it starts and runs for 15 minutes. The battery is maintained by a trickle charger. Ours operates off of LP, rated fuel usage at half load is 1.89 GPH, and 2.9 at full load. Figuring on 80% fill of a 500 gallon tank, unless my math is off, we can run it almost 10 days continuously at 50% loading. Realistically, 50% load is a bunch of load. I researched on line sources for the best price, it seemed they were all about the same within a few dollars. The big difference was shipping. Some free, others.....not. In the end, one of the local supply houses had the same Generac unit with a Seimens badge. They had a Tommy-lift truck, free delivery, and free doughnuts and coffee while the order was written up.

Installation was relatively straight forward, only required the electric company to cut power to the meter while we wired in the SE rated (service entrance) transefer switch. Installed outside the garage, it's the farthest point away from the house, we can hardly hear it when it runs. Since installed it's accrued a little over 61 hours of run time. We heat with wood, and didn't worry too much about winter time electrical loads, but in the summer you can't get enough windows open to keep relatively comfortable. I've read stories about the units not being very reliable, and poor factory service and support. In the three years we've had ours, the battery charger module died and was replaced, and the display failed and was replaced. Both replaced on the day a service call was made, both no charge. We have 8 authorized service agents within a 50 mile radius. We're very happy with it. IIRC, total cost for unit, transfer switch, labor for helper, and incedentals for installation (conduit, wire, etc.) totalled a little over 5K. Tank rental on a 500 gallon tank is $60.00, and the first year was free. I'm not sure what the original fill cost was for the propane, we still have about 70% left. Mark

pilot-werx · Dec 21, 2011

When I built my house 10 years ago it cost me nearly $10k for my 12kw Onan and Auto transfer switch. That thing has been Rick solid and worth every penny I spent!

BeezFun · Dec 21, 2011

My friend had a 10kW Generac installed two years ago this spring for $2700. He bought it at home depot on sale for something like $1600, HD arranged installation. Work included placing a precast concrete pad, electric inside to the transfer switch, and NG piped out to the unit. I looked at it and they did a nice job. It was pretty straightforward, electric and NG were immediately on the other side of wall from generator. Bob said two guys were there about a half day.
The generac installer told him that Home depot sells these things cheaper on sale than he can buy them, so he can't compete on the small units.

hr3 · Dec 22, 2011

Here are the basics for one of our installs.

#1 Cost of the generator
#2 Basic install $950.00
#3 Battery $75.00
#4 Base and stone $100.00
#5 Backer board $70.00
#6 Any wire over the 30' suppled with the generator $9.50'
#7 Gas hookup.. ???

This is for the best case every install is a bit different..

Can you do it yourself.. Well yes very simple to install if you read the book it comes with.. Should take a homeowner about 2 days to do not including the gas..