PT 1430 electrical issue

   / PT 1430 electrical issue #1  

sirmombo

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
38
Location
New Berlin, WI
Tractor
PT 1430
I was a mowing with in a light rain and the 1430 stopped. Nothing electrical worked. I noticed the circuit breaker on the dash flipped. I reset it. The cooling fan runs and the engine turns over, but doesn't fire.

Is it likely something got wet, shorted, and flipped the circuit breaker?

Thanks,
Bill
 
   / PT 1430 electrical issue
  • Thread Starter
#2  
I just talked to Terry. The most likely cause is the fuel solenoid is going bad. That would cause the circuit breaker to flip and prevent the engine from starting. I need to check if I have 12 volts on pin 7 of the connector going into the engine. If I have 12 volts, it's definitely the solenoid.

The wiring seems in perfect condition. I checked the ground on the engine plug (pin 8) and got one volt with the ignition off and no volts with the ignition on. Maybe I wasn't connecting to the pin properly. Everything works except for the engine firing so it doesn't seem likely there's a ground issue. Nearly everything connects through the same terminal block.

Thanks,
Bill
 
   / PT 1430 electrical issue #3  
That Solenoid is not cheap. It is easy to replace (I replaced mine). There is a lot of mixed responses to buying Chinese knockoffs vs OEM. I got a knockoff from a guy in Washington State who does a lot of deutz parts. He swars by his builder and it worked out. There are a number of versions so you are going to probably have to take yours out and unstall a new one. You can run without it BTW. You just have to kill the engine by getting off the tractor and pulling the throttel to the stop position. At least that is how I am remembering my situation from 2 years ago. Could be completely on crack as well.
 
   / PT 1430 electrical issue #4  
Carl- You aren't hallucinating. There is the manual fuel stop lever on the back corner.

Sirmombo- When you say the engine doesn't fire, how does the exhaust smell? i.e. do you smell diesel? If not, check the solenoid, below. If the solenoid is good, you might want to loosen the connection from the fuel pump to the main fuel filter. If that leaks diesel, you know the prefilter and the pump are OK. (Change the fuel filter at that point, and make sure that you clean the metal screen prefilter that is part of the fuel filter.) Try cranking again.

Diesels are pretty simple. If you are getting fuel into the cylinder, the engine will fire, unless the timing is horribly off (unlikely) or you have bent a push rod, (again unlikely). If the fuel filter and the pump check out OK, and especially if you had a dirty filter, I would check the injectors to make sure that they are clean.

Your voltage readings are...odd.

Did you do this with the engine off, but the ignition on? Regardless, your engine ground should be within a couple of ohms (not volts) of the tub ground. If it isn't, I would clean the battery (neg) to engine cable at the engine, and run a second heavy gauge wire from the engine / battery bolt over to the tub. Ideally, you want to measure the resistance relative the the battery negative until you have things pieced together. I would also check that the fuel solenoid has voltage on it when you turn the key to on. I have this faint recollection that the fuel solenoid doesn't get 12V, but I may be thinking of the fuel sender, which I know doesn't get 12V. Anyone?

Depending on the rain, you may just have gotten the engine connector wet/shorted. The engine connector isn't in the most protected of locations. I would blow the connector out with compressed air, disconnect the two halves, and clean the contacts with a small piece of 600-800 grit wet dry sand paper, and then put a little, or maybe not so little, film of dielectric grease over all the exposed metal in that connector. If it is partly disconnected, or corroded or one of the pins is out of alignment, you may not be completing the circuit.

I realize it has been a little wet in your neck of the woods lately, but mowing in the rain seems to be inviting... well, trouble, for lack of a better word. I guess it comes of knowing folks who have been hit by lightning working out in fields. Of course, that may be because I spent time near you and have some vivid memories of lakes being hit by lightning. (Yes, Virginia, the whole darn lake turns bright white.) That, and light bulbs popping when the overhead wires got hit somewhere. I miss those thunderstorms.

That fuel solenoid can get sticky, and you can clean it, but, and it is a big but, you want to be really sure to keep the area clean, and the solenoid clean of all dust and debris when it goes back in. A quick way to check it is to leave the engine cowl up, put the key in the ignition and turn it to the first position. You should hear a solenoid go click from pretty near the engine clip. If you don't hear it click, probably bad. If you do hear something, it may still be bad, as it may not be opening completely. Don't forget to look into the engine block where the solenoid threads in to make sure that it is clean as well. Many of these solenoids fail to function by sticking to crud that has come out of the fuel. You need to clean out that area before putting a new one in. If this is what happened to you, you might want to consider upgrading your diesel source and/or adding Sea Foam, or its equivalent (or both). I run Chevron or Shell diesel out here, and add Sea Foam to every 5 gallons that goes in.

YMMV.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / PT 1430 electrical issue
  • Thread Starter
#5  
I confirmed that the issue is the fuel cutoff solenoid. I found a local dealer that has the OEM part. I gave the engine serial number so I am hopeful it's the correct part. They said it has a high failure rate. An OEM solenoid is $260. I see cheap ones on eBay for $60. I don't think any dealer around here stocks knockoffs and I really need to get it out of the orchard.

It looks I just need to remove the fan belt, tensioner pulley, and then I can unbolt the solenoid. The engine only has 400 hours on it and has never been worked on so I expect all the bolts to be very tight from the factory.

It should be possible to remove the solenoid and move the fuel rack manually by a lever on the side of the block. I probably would have tried this if I knew about it Monday.
 
   / PT 1430 electrical issue
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I replaced the fuel cutoff solenoid last night and the engine started up. The new solenoid is a slightly updated design. It took about 30 minutes to remove the old one and 10 minutes to install the new one. I still couldn't lay a finger on the lower bolt with the new design, but at least I could see it and was able to place it on a nut driver and get it installed without any issues. I had to install it in a steady rain and was worried about dropping a bolt.

I drove it to my garage and everything seems to work. The bad news is that the circuit breaker pops after the engine is running for 5-10 seconds. The engine stays running and the gauges all work after it pops. If the breaker pops with the lights and PTO on, they stay on with no noticeably interruption. According to the wiring diagram, the current goes from the ignition switch to the circuit breaker to the terminal block and then to everything else. When it pops, it should cut off the ignition circuit and the engine should stop. If I turn the ignition on without starting the engine, it won't pop. I am going to try a new breaker. Maybe the engine vibration or something else with the engine running is causing issues with it. Turning off the ignition stops everything. It seems the breaker is popping but still letting current through. My first thought was that something got wet and was causing the issue, but it was fairly dry this morning and had the same issue.

The area around the solenoid was pretty clean. I didn't see any type of residue on the old solenoid, but it had a strong burnt electrical smell. I had to fiddle with it to get it out. The hook on the end of it must have been caught on the fuel rack.

Bill
 
   / PT 1430 electrical issue #7  
First, has your wiring been messed with (It will be pretty obvious).

my machine shuts down when the circuit breaker pops. It is odd yours keeps going.

This said, last year I started to suffer from the circuit breaker kicking off, couldn't figure out why, until I pulled my head out and realized the breaker had been rained on for 15 years at least. Bought a new breaker, problem solved.

And on the solenoid, yup, you gotta kinda wiggle it around to get it out. PITA.
 
   / PT 1430 electrical issue
  • Thread Starter
#8  
I bought the 1430 new about 3 years ago. The only wiring I messed with is around the starter solenoid. It has two starter solenoids. The first one sends power to the Deutz starter solenoid. The vibration was breaking the electrical connectors and first solenoid eventually failed. That happened within the first few months of ownership. I mounted the solenoid on rubber grommets and haven't had any issues since.

Normally the tractor is in a garage. It was sitting out for a couple of days in constant rain until I got the new fuel cutoff solenoid replaced. I talked to Terry and he agreed that it's a cheap part and worth replacing. The observed behavior doesn't make any sense. The sun came out the day after getting it to the garage.
 
   / PT 1430 electrical issue #9  
The connection at the fiorst solenoid broke due to vibration on mine as well. I like the rubber grommet idea.

Ken
 

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