PT-1850 Cold Blooded Deutz

AVIVIII · Dec 5, 2018

I always loved that the Yanmars in the JDs start up without any hesitation even on the darkest, coldest winter days... This is not the case with my deutz.

This winter, I have developed this painful procedure of: hooking up the battery charger (To a new, 6-month-old battery that is not discharging while its sitting), putting a pail of joint compound on the seat, cranking cranking cranking, letting the starter cool, cranking cranking cranking, letting the battery recharge, cranking more, once started, disconnecting the battery charger, closing the hood, letting it warm up for 15 minutes (with the garage doors open to air out the smoke), switching out the joint compound for my butt, praying that it restarts and then going out. I may bypass the seat switch for the winter too after this experience....

I am under the impression that there aren't typical glow plugs available on the Deutz, and I seem to remember someone here putting heaters in the intake? but I can't find the post. I am curious as to how well it works and how long/often you should run them. Has anyone used a block heater or an oil pan heater on these engines? Heating the garage is in the plans eventually, but is not a reality for a couple years.

Does anyone else have cold weather problems, or are these typical and I am just spoiled?

Also noteworthy, I recommend leaving the hood open when it sits for 2 reasons. 1) it seems to keep the mice out. 2) it prevents you from setting your beer on the giant, flat, bar-height hood surface and subsequently spilling said beer when angrily opening the giant hood to hook up the battery charger in the dark..... It took me 1 mouse and 2 broken bottles to figure this out.

MossRoad · Dec 5, 2018

Get a cheap blow dryer and point it down the air intake for 5-10 minutes, then try firing it up and see what happens.

ponytug · Dec 5, 2018

There are short heater coils that you can put in the intake manifold. Given where you are, I would highly recommend them. I'm told that they make a world of difference. Mine starts OK down to 35F; beyond that I have no PT experience.
Here's one; Deutz Manifold Glow Plug/Heater - 12V

If you are in the southern part of the state, I would recommend trying one, and seeing if it is enough, if not, you can always add a second one. If you are on the northern end, I would buy two to begin with. Either way, I would size the relay for it big enough for two heater coils. You turn on the heating coils for 2-10 seconds before cranking, and leave it on for a few minutes afterwards to keep the combustion air warm. (Keeps down the diesel going well.) You can also add a delay off relay to make it set and forget, if you want. e.g.
https://www.amazon.com/Timer-Delay-Relay-Hours-Cycling/dp/B00PD65UGA Let it control the relay for the heater coils.

You can also get 110V oil heaters from Wolverine (now Phillips and Temro) that many here swear by. This has the additional advantage of not having pump cavitation from cold oil.

Silicone Pad Heaters - Phillips & Temro Industries
Tip: Get the paint on the oil tank really, really clean, or grind it off down to metal, and put it on.

Both ideas have been covered at some length in the forum.

If you are going to try the hair dryer tip, just point it at the manifold.

The Deutz is a great engine- but on the PT, the starter has to turn three pumps full of cold oil, plus crank the engine. Many of us would love a clutch for it, but, that it isn't a factory option...

All the best,

Peter

MossRoad · Dec 5, 2018

Oh to have a clutch between the pumps and the engine.... :laughing:

I'd need two clutches on mine as there's pumps on both ends of my engine. The newer 400 series has all three pumps stacked. That would be easy to put a clutch in. Might have to lengthen the tub a few inches, but again, it would be worth it.

I've started mine down to about -5F. It took some cranking. I use a squirt of carb cleaner on days like that before I even try.

MossRoad · Dec 5, 2018

ponytug said:
There are short heater coils that you can put in the intake manifold. Given where you are, I would highly recommend them. I'm told that they make a world of difference. Mine starts OK down to 35F; beyond that I have no PT experience.
Here's one; Deutz Manifold Glow Plug/Heater - 12V
View attachment 581834
If you are in the southern part of the state, I would recommend trying one, and seeing if it is enough, if not, you can always add a second one. If you are on the northern end, I would buy two to begin with. Either way, I would size the relay for it big enough for two heater coils. You turn on the heating coils for 2-10 seconds before cranking, and leave it on for a few minutes afterwards to keep the combustion air warm. (Keeps down the diesel going well.) You can also add a delay off relay to make it set and forget, if you want. e.g.
https://www.amazon.com/Timer-Delay-Relay-Hours-Cycling/dp/B00PD65UGA Let it control the relay for the heater coils.

You can also get 110V oil heaters from Wolverine (now Phillips and Temro) that many here swear by. This has the additional advantage of not having pump cavitation from cold oil.

View attachment 581833 Silicone Pad Heaters - Phillips & Temro Industries
Tip: Get the paint on the oil tank really, really clean, or grind it off down to metal, and put it on.

Both ideas have been covered at some length in the forum.

If you are going to try the hair dryer tip, just point it at the manifold.

The Deutz is a great engine- but on the PT, the starter has to turn three pumps full of cold oil, plus crank the engine. Many of us would love a clutch for it, but, that it isn't a factory option...

All the best,

Peter

As many of you know, I worked at airports for about 6 years back in the late 70's/early 80's. We almost always used a propane powered pre-heater on all the piston engines below 30 degrees F. Several planes started using those types of electric pads on the oil pans. As I recall, they removed any paint and glued the pads on with some sort of epoxy, then touched up the paint. And, of course, since it said "AIRCRAFT" on it, they were quite expensive.

I recall one of the aircraft mechanics put one on his vehicle, too.

woodlandfarms · Dec 6, 2018

Ken S installed glows on his 1850 I believe. He is in upstate NY. And he says they work well. Nothing for deutz is cheap, FYI.

As for the clutch, I mentioned a long time ago I saw a cub cadet hydro tranny. It has a bypass on the oil circuit on the pump. Lets the pump freewheel. I believe some of our machines have this capability.

AVIVIII · Dec 6, 2018

Thanks guys!

I'm definitely going to try the intake coils and a pad heater. I'm assuming that we are more concerned with heating the hydraulic oil than the engine oil, right?

Sorry to make you all repeat that, I appreciate it!

MossRoad · Dec 6, 2018

woodlandfarms said:
Ken S installed glows on his 1850 I believe. He is in upstate NY. And he says they work well. Nothing for deutz is cheap, FYI.

As for the clutch, I mentioned a long time ago I saw a cub cadet hydro tranny. It has a bypass on the oil circuit on the pump. Lets the pump freewheel. I believe some of our machines have this capability.

Hmmmmm........ just about two years ago I identified my bypass tow ports on the tram pump, got some fittings and a interconnect hose and got it set up to tow. I wonder if I could slip a valve in there between the ports permanently? And I wonder if I could damage the tram pump by running the engine with it in bypass mode? Or if I could damage the pump by closing the valve with the engine running? Hmmmmmm...... some things to consider. We'll see how the winter goes. I've never failed to start the machine in cold weather, so maybe it's not worth pursuing.

ponytug · Dec 6, 2018

Dear AVIVII,

Yes, the oil that you really want warm is the hydraulic oil. Warm oil is easier to pump/crank, and it reduces cavitation.

With the air preheaters, the Deutz itself is pretty good about cold starting. (Though Deutz makes a bolt on oil heater $$$.)

All the best, Peter

AVIVIII said:
Thanks guys!

I'm definitely going to try the intake coils and a pad heater. I'm assuming that we are more concerned with heating the hydraulic oil than the engine oil, right?

Sorry to make you all repeat that, I appreciate it!