Generator pto generator switch

   / pto generator switch #1  

swiftboot

Silver Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
106
Location
central florida
Tractor
long 460, Mahindra 6500 fwd/FEL
Having a home built and want to have the electrician put in a hook-up for plugging in generator. What would be the best and most economical way to do this? I dont mind coming out and hooking something up or throwing breakers to keep the power from going back down the line. I was wondering if just cutting the powe form the main breaker box at meter accomplish this cut-off? I am electrically challenged and reading the descriptions of transfer switches is confusing to me, let alone very expensive. I plan to utilize a 15kw pto unit and want just a simple deal to power the house. btw, gas stove, so heavy uses would be a/c and hot water which could be rotated if necessary. Dont mind responding with an oversimplication type explanation, I will not be insulted. thanks, chuck
 
   / pto generator switch #2  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( What would be the best and most economical way to do this? )</font>

Two different answers! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / pto generator switch #3  
Spiffy is right, but I did a bunch of searching on this very topic. I still haven't gotten around to setting up a switch, although I too have a 15KW PTO genny.

From my research, it looks like making your own physically exclusive switch is the way to go. You have 2 big switches, side-by-side or above and below. You connect the two with strong metal plate or bar so that to turn one off, turns the other on. When in the middle, neither is on. That way, you just go outside, shove the big "switch" to the other side and voila! you are completely off grid, and completely on PTO gen.

I priced the transfer centers they want to sell you and installed you are looking down the barrel of at *least* $1000.

The high amp breakers alone drive a lot of the costs. A fancier transfer center can tell you all kinds of great things about the quality of your power etc, but my genny already has a gauge. I'd probably have any computerized equipment not on a proper UPS turned off anyway when using it so no worries. Just make sure you are as close to a perfect 540 rpm as you can get. If the generator says you aren't at 540, regardless of what the tractor says, believe the generator gauge.

I'm sure some smart guys will be chiming in here with a wealth of info any moment.
 
   / pto generator switch #4  
Well being electrically challenged, you may be at the mercy of a local electrical contractor. There are many ways to accomplish this, some are safe and will be to code, some will be strictly prohibited by code. Messing this up can be hazardous to your health and home.

Probably the easiest way to do this is to add a second electrical panel with an isolation type knife switch. Works as described above. It has 2 inputs and one output. When you pull the lever, one input is disconnected from the output before the other input is connected. A fairly common electrical component and Probably less expensive than a interlocked circuit breaker.

The first input to this A/B switch would be from a large circuit breaker in your existing panel. The other input would be from your secondary power source. The output would feed the secondary panel.

Into the secondary panel, you move the wired circuits that you wish to be able to power from either the genset or comm power(physically move wires from main panel to the second panel). Under normal operations, the main panel feeds the second panel to power these devices. To operate, on genset, you connect up the generator with a plug to the A/B switch. You get it running and to correct volt and freq then move the A/B switch to the position that draws power from the generator. Depending upon the situation you may need to open circuit breakers in the secondary panel before doing this to keep from overloading the genset. This A/B switch and second panel is pretty much what you are getting when you purchase one of those genset power dist panels. It is just combined into a single neat package that has a specific purpose so it is more expensive.

What are the output specifications of yout 15KW genset? Unless it is capable of feeding 2 phases(240VAC) the powering of stove, water heater and furnace may be out of the question all together.

AC electrics 101: Standard houshold AC power is usually a combination of 2 or 3 electrical phases(A B C) referenced to neutral or each other to get the desired voltages. An electrical wall outlet is 1 phase to neutral(2 flat prongs on the plug) which gets you 120VAC. the third wire is to ground which provides a safety path for the 120VAC in case the equipment shorts out(instead of passing through the person operating the equipment). The current fed to say a hot water heater, kitchen oven/range or dryer is a combination of phases, either A to B, B to C or C to A without neutral. When connected this way 240VAC is provided. These phases are fed to electrical buss barrs in the power panel via a main breaker or cutoff switch. Onto these buss barrs are connected the circuit breakers that power the various circuits. Some of these breakers only connect to a single buss bar(single phase) and are used to power 120VAC circuits(second wire to complete the circuit comes from a neutral buss in the panel). Some are connected to 2 buss bars(dual phase) and have 2 outputs that feed 240 VAC circuits. That is why most of the large breakers in your panel feed a single item such as the hot water heater where the smaller single phase breakers may feed multiple circuits such as living room light or ground floor electrical outlets up to the wire and circuit breaker rating. Another job performed by the electrician is to balance the load on the phases in the panel by connecting the breakers to the proper buss bars.


You can feed a secondary panel with a large 2 phase circuit breaker which will feed 2 buss bars in the secondary panel. From these 2 buss bars you can connect either 120 or 240 VAC breakers to power the necessary devices. Here is the rub. Unless your generator is capable of feeding that secondary panel with the same 2 phase 240VAC, this won't work.
 
   / pto generator switch
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thanks for the reply. So far you are the smartest guy that responded. Just talked to the electrican and he explained the grid power can be disconnected at the box outside the house just past the meter can. I can then get the gen hooked directly to the breakers box in garage and by a pigtail when it becomes necesary. I will wait til the final CO is issued before making any changes so as not to confuse the inspectors etc. Thanks for the info.
 
   / pto generator switch
  • Thread Starter
#6  
oops!! I had not read your post when i posted my last message. Your explanation was thorogh and complete i suspect, and i understood some of it. I am convinced a qualified electrian needs to undertake this task for me. thanks for the reply
 
   / pto generator switch #7  
This question was posted earlier but I couldn't find it. If you have an electrician doing your wiring, to protect his a$$ from a possible lawsuit he could install a slide locking device in your electric panel that would not allow you to engage the breaker fed from the generator while the main power breaker was on. (There was a picture posted of the device) Its a simple slide bar that would require the main breaker to be turned off before you could move the slide bar over to engage the generator breaker. You could wire up a generator pigtail to a breaker to backfeed your panel but you open yourself up to a lawsuit should you forget to disconnect street power and cause harm to someone working on the power lines by sending your generator power down the line. If you forget to disc. street power, for a brief few moments you'd send power down the line until the generator overloaded and tripped its breakers.
Just my 2 cents.

George
 
   / pto generator switch #8  
SquareD supplies a lot of options for this kind of installation. And it's fool proof and safer than a cobbed together mess.
You can get combination all-in-one service entrance devices or a manual transfer that lets you turn on gen power only if the main power has been turned off. Do a little looking at www.squared.com Maybe your electrician already knows the best way to do it, just be safe. Some of the setups Ive seen and heard about here on TBN scare the **** out of me.
 
   / pto generator switch #9  
I installed this for my 6000w generator, very easy to install, works great. I'm sure you have more generator power than 6000w though.

GenTran Transfer switch.
 
 

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