PTO Generators anyone?

[JDforMe]

Just wondering if anyone out there has considered a PTO generator for emergency backup? Not sure if my tractor is large enough to handle one (it's a 2305) but the idea is interesting..... I'm just starting to do some research and figured I'd ask the forum for any thoughts.

Anyone care to weigh in? Thanks!

 

[zzvyb6]

Here's a Winpower 50kw job. Would take 100+ hp to fully engage it. My 35 hp does just fine. Never cracks the governor. Even runs the house ac if necessary.

There are 2 in this Ann Arbor, MI area for sale: 18kw for $2200 a piece.

Once you have one, lots of other uses crop up, like remote welding.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I have a 15Kw TigerPower.

There are those who will say it is a bad idea, since you may need your tractor for other duties during or after a storm. I have two tractors that can run the generator, so that issue is moot for me. My reasoning is that I could get a bigger generator for the same amount of money compared to buying a powered generator. I also did not want to buy yet another single or twin cylinder engine to maintain and keep running. Particularly for a generator. The last thing I want to do with the lights out is fight with a neglected gasoline engine trying to get it to run. Both my tractors start -- all the time.

The rule of thumb is that you need two PTO horsepower for every Kw of electricity you want to generate. That means to get all the generator can give, I need a 30 PTO HP, which I have on my 4410. If I am using my 455, with about 17 PTO HP, I will have to watch my load. The smaller tractor won't hurt the generator or the tractor, but won't be able to kick out the watts if demand exceeds engine HP.

I have about a hundred gallons of diesel fuel in storage. I won't be in the line for gasoline cans or gasoline when the lights go out.

Yes, a fully automated, propane back up system is better. But, I have about 3 thousand invested in a generator that can run my whole house and needs no attention between now and when I need it. The automated systems start at around 6 -- and then you'll be looking at something around 10Kw.

 

[jimgerken]

I love my PTO powered generator. I used to have a Honda 6500 watt unit with 9 hp gasoline engine. You know the kind, all in a little roll bar frame. It was great, worked fine. But the nature of the generator is, you use it very infrequently. A small gas engine needs to be operated every couple months, or drained of fuel and stabilized each time. So I got real good at cleaning the carb. I sold it eventually and bought a pto unit. My PTO unit is 15 kw, just a bit bigger than I can run to its full capacity with my present tractor. When I bought, the correct size would have been 12kw, but the 15kw was another 100 bucks. Since it is bigger, it has more inertia when turning and so will roll through the startup surges better. And of course if I trade up the tractor, its even better. This unit is voltage controlled to within 1 or 2 %, with active circuitry. The circuitry and nice big dual (frequency and voltage) meters and circuit breakers and plug recepticles are all mounted in a rain-tight shock mounted box. The generator unit has an integrated cooling fan. The whole thing came mounted in the nicest 3-point roll frame you could want (I am pretty critical of this stuff usually since I build all my own stuff). Also came with the drive shaft (Eurocardan), and a power cord for me to wire in. Very nice stuff, highly recommended! Here's a link:

https://ssl.perfora.net/www.powerco...nid=154683bcca84cfc/shopdata/index.shopscript

 

[VA Rebel]

There is a company named Gen-Tran that makes real nice waterproof connectors that mount to the house, so you can just plug the generator in right outside the house.

 

[bones1]

jimgerken,about what does one of those run?.

 

[jimgerken]

From memory, the 15kw was $1550, with the stuff I listed before. This was several years ago, likely it has gone up since.

 

[Cidertom]

I'll weigh in with my $0.02. I used to be up in the mountains where a 15 day outage was a yearly event and month long happened every few years. So I bought a small diesel genset. Comparing my setup 12KW to a neighbors pto at 12/15 KW:
PTO: Cheaper to purchase. Genset: Cheaper to operate. Until fuel cost went up a couple of years ago my cost/kwh was about what I could buy it from the power company. The fuel savings is mostly in the lower end of the power range. But even mine bottomed out at around 2.5-3KW load.

Waking up in the morning to no power: Genset ready in 30 seconds (I had a manual start/ transfer switch)

Wishing I had lots of power at the other end of the place: PTO wins

Noise: My unit had a special building it lived in, the only way you knew it was running was the lights were on. I could tell when the tractor was being used as it was at full speed for hours.

Technical issue: For short term it doesn't matter much, but the govenor in gensets are "tighter" than those in tractors. While AVR may keep the volts up, the frequency tends to wander much more on a PTO than the genset. This causes the power factor in motors to do weird things.

Other issues: I used a fuel tank (220 USGal) in a below grade concrete caisson where the tempature was fairly constant. This kept the fuel from sucking in moisture while in storage. It also had a 12 volt transfer pump and hose. Once winter was over, I started using the fuel for the tractor, and replaced it when the price bottomed in August. Also it doesn't matter what you have, if you want it to work correctly you have to use it. Even a PTO will get damp and degrade windings if not dried out now and then. My genset got a weekly exercise (50% load 1 hour min) from November to May and monthly for the rest of the year

If I didn't already have the genset, I probably wouldn't buy one where I am now as my Lincoln Weld-n-power would do most of what I need.
/$0.02

 

[sandman2234]

I purchased a 10KW "look-alike" generator for my lawnmower. The company that sells the lawnmower has a 10kw and a guy had a local weld shop match one that he had pictures of. I purchased it from ebay. My lawnmower pretty much runs every week and is quick disconnect of the mower or whatever attachment is on the front end. Because the mower is diesel, both my tractors are fuel tanks storage units for it. It will run all day on a tank of fuel and the tractors I have could supply it for days on end. Not true if I have to run one of the tractors, as they use a lot more fuel per hour. I recently purchased another diesel powered lawnmower for parts and thought about using that motor to set up the pto generator as a standby unit, but that would cause me to have to maintain another engine.
The drawback to having a pto generator is if I am out of town, the wife would have no clue as to how to hook it up. I could show her, but in reality, she has no desire to learn about electricity. An automatic standby unit would tickle her to death, but they are a lot more money for the few times we use them and are not portable. I generated power for 5 houses last time we had a hurricane here, constantly moving my Bobcat from one house to the next.
When it came time for me to return to work, any of the houses that didn't have power lost the contents of their freezers. I saved them for 7 days at my own expense, so they couldn't say I didn't try. Three of those houses have septic tanks with pumps that require running periodically, or things get a little stinky. An automatic standby generator wouldn't do my neighbors much good, but make it easier on me.
David from jax

 

[organ grinder]

Some questions for those of you "in the know." Does running the tractor in neutral hours on end to run the PTO generator cause any unusual wear and tear on the tractor itself? How big a unit could I run with my JD 2210? Does the tractor need to be next to the house with extension cords or how does it run appliances, furnace, etc. otherwise? Thanks. . . .

 

[sandman2234]

The general rule of thumb for any generator worth it's salt is 2hp per KW, as was mentioned. If you purchase a larger generator within reason, and you don't have the horsepower to run it, you just can't produce as many kw's as possible. You just keep the draw within the operational limits of the power being supplied and all will be fine.
The best way to do it is to have the house wired with a disconnect that completely shuts off your street power before allowing the generator power to be added to the system. I was working on doing just that when my employment was halted. Making an outdoor connection to the whole house is a lot better than running extension cords but it must be done right or can be a major problem for you and any lineman working on the system.
David from jax

 

[sandman2234]

If I owned a 2210 I would probably look for something from 10kw to 15 kw. Your not going to be able to generate much more than 9 to 10 kw but should you ever go to a larger tractor the added range would be nice to have and it won't be enough to hurt the 2210's performance.A 10kw should be enough to run your complete house provided you use a little sense about not running the A/C and hot water heater at the same time while the wife is slaving away in the kitchen. Give her a break and fire up the grill, while she takes a long hot bath in the comfort of an air conditioned home, while keeping it romantic by using candles.
Sometimes those cheap 10kw heads are available from the discount places for about $299, such as Northern Tool or Harbor Freight. The problem with them is the rpm required to run them, meaning you will have to build or arranged a way to speed up your pto from 540 to either 1800 or 3600 depending on what they call for.
David from jax

 

[JamesH]

As stated in the previous post you need to do the conversion from the PTO of 540rpm to 1800rpm for most generators.
If I was building my own set where could I find one of these gearboxes? I have done some looking but not had much luck.
Thanks,
James

 

[Grrrr]

Some questions for those of you "in the know." Does running the tractor in neutral hours on end to run the PTO generator cause any unusual wear and tear on the tractor itself? Thanks. . . .

I don't think running the tractor for hours on end in nuetral does any damage. There is a big contractor near us who has 4 combines. He has lots of trailers waiting on these combines. When the trailers come back to the yard the dump the grain in a pit in a massive barn. In the barn next door is a grain dryer. It has to be loaded from the top.

To load the dryer they have an old International tractor. It has two jobs, pumping slurry and driving the grain auger.

During the harvest, it never stops. It is started when the first load of grain comes in and stops about 1 month later when the last of the grain is emptied from the pit. It is filled up every other morning from a diesel bowser parked next to it. It is only ticking over when in use. It will often work all day and all night to feed the dryer. During the summer it does about 600 hours.

All Spring it travels with the contractor to pump slurry from slurry tanks. It gets about 400 hours a year doing this too.

It has about 25,000 thousand hours on it. It had an engine rebuild at about 13,000 hours. The only thing they do is change the revs every now and again.

 

[SkyPup]

Some questions for those of you "in the know." Does running the tractor in neutral hours on end to run the PTO generator cause any unusual wear and tear on the tractor itself?Thanks. . . .

It causes major problems when it is left on 24/7 for months on end.

The noise throughout the middle of the night of the engine running is monotonous and makes it difficult to sleep at night The irrigation pumps running off the tractors PTOs night after night after night gets old fast. You don't really notice it during the day as the wind and other environmental noises drown out the constant drone of the diesel engines running. But at night, when all is quiet and still, you can hear it for miles.