PTO Generators, been here before?

[sea2summit]

I'm positive I read the info I'm looking for on TBN before but I can't find it now for some reason.

I'm getting a bigger tractor and I'd like to get a PTO generator that will run the house, as with all PTO generators threads "what if I need my tractor"? So I thought I read somewhere that you could spin just about any generator with any PTO hp it was putting a draw on it that required the hp to keep turning.

So say I got a 15kw generator but decide I need to take the big tractor so hook up the BX to the 15kw for a while. That will work so long as I turn off the major draws, say air conditioner, and get the draw down to the 8-9ish kw the BX should be able to support it correct?

 

[davesl708]

Possibly but do you want your tractor running continuously to power a generator? Would not a dedicated generator work better?
I ask because I have had to go four days without power in an ice storm.

 

[JMER817]

Possibly but do you want your tractor running continuously to power a generator? Would not a dedicated generator work better? I ask because I have had to go four days without power in an ice storm.

Agreed, I thought about going this route once, but makes no sense to put the hours on a $15-$30k tractor when a $1k motor will do the same thing. Same goes with pto log splitters. Plus you don't tie up the tractor.

 

[Agvg]

Tractors are made for running 24/7 so it should be no problem, 4 days are only 96 hours so that should count as nothing. If you are talking normal tractors its quite common to run them 10000h with not to much problems.

 

[5030]

I had a big Winco PTO unit years ago, 20 KW and sold it about 3 years ago. Couple reasons, one it has to be hooked up to the tractor and usually when the power goes out, it's not sunny at 65 degrees outside, it's a blizzard and below zero, r a tornado or a windstorm so hooking it up isn't a walk in the park by any means. You have to maintain it just like anything else, you don't leave one sit outside and expect it to work, because it won't. Secondly, it has to run at PTO speed '540/ to produce 60hz power. All well and good with no load on the genny. However, load it and the unit drags the engine rpm down, it looses it's 60hz capability (rotor speed must be maintained to produce 60hz), so when the speed drops because of a load, so does the frequency and believe me, household appliances don't like off frequency power. Finally, you have to fuel and maintain the tractor as it's running the genny.

You really want to sit on your tractor (n the middle of a storm or freezing cold) and continuously adjust the throttle to maintain rated rpm as your load changes... I don't.

If I were you, I'd consider a stand alone backup unit like a Generac. I replaced my pto unit with a 20KW Generac. Much easier to deal with.

 

[Sportsman762]

I have a friend who used a B7500 on a 15KW genset. We would put the PTO in 1000RPM and run the tractor just off an idle. The tractor had a tendency to try to overheat so we put a regular 110V box fan in front of the radiator to keep up the air flow. It worked pretty well and was efficient on fuel. However I did not care for the idea because the cost per hour to operate a tractor is significantly higher than a stand alone generator. I have a stand alone 9 KW honda powered genset, it replaced a Tecumseh 7 KW unit that I wore out. I am at the end of the line and have gone over 10 days without power. It is common to spend 5+ days a year powerless, I would hate to put those sort of hours on a tractor. I just spent 2K to rebuild the engine on the Massey, I can buy 2 Honda powered gensets for that cost. When we are running the generator I put synthetic oil in it and give it an oil change every 48 hours to try to get more life out of it. If I need power in the field I put the genset in the loader bucket and carry it with me.

 

[Agvg]

Normal tractors has govenor that keeps RPM under load, they are made for use as a stationary power source.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
So say I got a 15kw generator but decide I need to take the big tractor so hook up the BX to the 15kw for a while. That will work so long as I turn off the major draws, say air conditioner, and get the draw down to the 8-9ish kw the BX should be able to support it correct?

Plan on needing roughly 2HP/KW.
You list 2 tractors, an 1860 and a 25D. The 25D might just manage it.
The advantages of a PTO generator is that there is no engine to maintain, you don't need to run it a bit for maintenance, they are relatively small and you can easily swap the engine.

Plus sometimes you can get them cheap. A few years ago I bought a 12KW Winco, barely used WITH a nice PTO shaft (also barely used) for $600. Looking at todays prices a 10KW Winco w/ PTO would be about $1700.

If you only need 8KW and you DON'T have a generator I'd recommend a dual or tri-fuel and run it off NG or LPG, or go big time and get a military surplus 10 to 15KW diesel genset on a trailer.

 

[5030]

Normal tractors has govenor that keeps RPM under load, they are made for use as a stationary power source.

That's news to me. I have 2 large frame Kubota's (much larger than most owners on here have) and neither have a 'governor' that maintains engine rpm during load fluctuations on the PTO. In order for any engine to maintain a specific RPM loaded and unloaded they must have a load sensing fuel pump. Tractors don't.

Maybe things are different in Norway.

 

[Agvg]

I have no tractors that requires someone in the seat to keep the rpm up under load, the injection pump should take care of that.

 

[5030]

like I said.....'Things must be different in Norway'.....

 

[bigdeano]

5030,

Every tractor I've seen has a governor, and I'm not in Norway. Do your tractors work like a car going up a hill and you push the clutch in, and the rpms go sky high? I doubt it. If they do they're not working correctly.

 

[zzvyb6]

All my JD tractors have a fast governor. I run a 50kW Winpower and the Kill-A-Watt meter doesn't lose 1 Hz when the A/C compressor kicks on. Current tractor is a 1070. I even run this same PTO genny off my F-935 lawnmower.

And I live in Michigan.

 

[5030]

It's actually called torque rise in a diesel engine, the ability for an engine to mantain a pre-determined rpm at a particular throttle setting. What I'm inferring to is when you exceed the torque rise of an engine (when you apply a load greater than the specified torque rise) you have to adjust the throttle accordingly.

No matter, I've owned and operated a PTO driven unit and it's no picnic for the reasons I described in a previous post.

 

[sea2summit]

Soo can I run a big generator with a light load powered by a BX?

 

[Agvg]

When the engine starts to loose rpm under load the governor adjusts the throttle to keep the rpm constant, all tractors and almost all industrial engines have this.

 

[sea2summit]

Possibly but do you want your tractor running continuously to power a generator? Would not a dedicated generator work better?
I ask because I have had to go four days without power in an ice storm.

Don't plan to run it continuously but I would like the ability to run most of the utilities during the majority of the day. Biggest concern is with a big family it's typical for me to have thousands of dollars worth of food in the freezers and the heat here can become severe quickly especially after a bad storm in the summer so I really want to be able to run the AC too...sense everything else in house was electric when we moved in I'm kind of stuck with a lot of stuff drawing electricity I'd rather have on LP.

Plan on needing roughly 2HP/KW.
You list 2 tractors, an 1860 and a 25D. The 25D might just manage it.
The advantages of a PTO generator is that there is no engine to maintain, you don't need to run it a bit for maintenance, they are relatively small and you can easily swap the engine.

Plus sometimes you can get them cheap. A few years ago I bought a 12KW Winco, barely used WITH a nice PTO shaft (also barely used) for $600. Looking at todays prices a 10KW Winco w/ PTO would be about $1700.

If you only need 8KW and you DON'T have a generator I'd recommend a dual or tri-fuel and run it off NG or LPG, or go big time and get a military surplus 10 to 15KW diesel genset on a trailer.

I'd love to have a surplus 10k, unfortunately it doesn't fit with my current job due to moves. Neither does a bigger tractor but work with me

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Soo can I run a big generator with a light load powered by a BX?

Yes, I do it all the time with my Kubota B6200. IF I need bigger power out put, I put a bigger tractor on the gen set...

Personally, I REALLY like my 15kw Winco pto genset, it works perfectly and I don't mind putting a few hours on my tractor, that's what it's made to do! Why spend money on a tractor, then be afraid to use it??

Once I get a partial load on my genset, I set the throttle on my tractor and the governor takes care of any increases, and BTW, EVERY tractor I've ever owned has a governor to increase fuel to the engine under load.

And another thing, using a higher gear (speed) on the pto on a small tractor, takes it out of it's power band, that's NOT good on the tractor and makes for poor power out put, as the governor is slow to respond to loads.

SR

 

[SPYDERLK]

That's news to me. I have 2 large frame Kubota's (much larger than most owners on here have) and neither have a 'governor' that maintains engine rpm during load fluctuations on the PTO. In order for any engine to maintain a specific RPM loaded and unloaded they must have a load sensing fuel pump. Tractors don't.

Maybe things are different in Norway.

It's actually called torque rise in a diesel engine, the ability for an engine to mantain a pre-determined rpm at a particular throttle setting. What I'm inferring to is when you exceed the torque rise of an engine (when you apply a load greater than the specified torque rise) you have to adjust the throttle accordingly.

No matter, I've owned and operated a PTO driven unit and it's no picnic for the reasons I described in a previous post.

Are you running your tractor at PTO RPM or are you using a higher pto gear and running the engine slower to get the correct pto speed?? ... If the former you have a warranty issue with your tractor. Some tractors hold rpm better than others as load changes, but at pto rated rpm there are none as bad as you describe unless they are malfunctioning.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I used a PTO set for years. Worked well, but I am glad those days are over.

Unless I am wrong, no tractor has a shut down system for temp or oil failure. Something to think about before leaving a tractor running wide open unattended.