PTO horsepower

jwease · May 28, 2005

This is my first post so I'd like to start out by saying how invaluable this site has for me. I have been looking at the site for almost a year and it has been the best thing for answers to questions that I didn't even know I had. It certainly helps talking to salespeople at the dealer when you know somewhat what you are talking about.

Any ways I first started out looking at the Sub-CUT specifically John Deere because I have a dealer about 2 miles from me. But as I have become educated I started looking at the CUT but $$$ being the limiting factor I'm back to the Sub-CUT. I like the JD2210 because it could be my all-in-one machine. I especially like the ability to put a front mount snow blower on it because we get quite a bit of snow off the lake here in central NY. On the other hand I'm concerned about it being able to handle tilling. My other choice is the Kioti CK20HST. Its price (for tractor & FEL) is about the same 2210 w/FEL & MMM. I didn't like the idea of mowing with the CK20 because of its larger size.

Enough rambling. The original intent of this post was my concern for the PTO hp on the CK20. With only 15.5hp I was wondering if it is enough to handle tilling some large areas of lawn. Previously untouched soil. The 2210 has 17.7 PTO hp. How significant is the 2.2hp advantage of the 2210? I'm just confused by it all.

I appreciate any help in this concern I have. Again this is a great site. Thanks.

John /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Bird · May 28, 2005

John, how big a tiller do you want to use. The 13 PTO hp of my B7100 Kubota handled a 40" tiller just fine. Personally, I prefer a tiller just a little wider than the outside of my rear tires, but I don't know what that width is on either the John Deere or the Kioti you're considering.

thcri · May 28, 2005

If they are about the same price?? John Deere has a mower where the Kioti does not?? So Kioti would be more expensive once you put the mower on it. You can buy a good finish mower relatively inexpensive. The 2.2 hp difference is something I don't think you would notice. Yes you would have to go a bit slower but not matter what rig you have with untouched soil you will be going slow. Second time around it will be a breeze with either.

Also the CK20HST is a CUT I believe not a Sub-CUT. But it is not to large for mowing. I mow yes finish mow with a New Holland TC29D. One neighbor has a John Deere 950. Another neighbor has a Cub Cadet fairly large. I would not worry about the weight unless you have some pretty soft soil of which then your tiller has nothing to worry about.

All in all if you like the John Deere dealer and you feel he is going to give you the best service after the sale then that is where you should be. However, if you feel comfortable with the Kioti dealer then I surely would be looking at it as the Kioti would be much nicer when using the loader. So you have to throw that in your equation.

Now I am sure the John Deere fans and the Kioti fans will be making suggestions also.

murph

jwease · May 28, 2005

I would stay in the 40"-50" size. I like the idea of the offset tiller for getting close to things.

That leads to another question. When a tiller manufacturer, for instance Woods GT40 requires tractor hp of 20-25hp, are they refering to the engine hp or PTO hp? I was also confused by that. Most dealers that I asked weren't sure or said, "sure the tractor will run that" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Not a confident answer to the question.

thcri · May 28, 2005

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( I was also confused by that. Most dealers that I asked weren't sure or said, "sure the tractor will run that" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Not a confident answer to the question. )</font>

I was told by PTO. This came from Midwest.

However, you said in your statement "tractor Horsepower". To me a 40" tiller would need a tractor hp of 20 - 25. Based on my experience that has to be tractor. Seems to high for PTO. My TC29D is 24 at the PTO and I run a 60" tiller with no problems.

murph

Bird · May 28, 2005

John, implements frequently have two different horsepower ratings. In both cases, they are referring to PTO horsepower. One is the "recommended" minimum horsepower to properly operate that implement. I say "recommended" because the manufacturer does not want a customer coming back complaing that his tractor won't handle it, so in my opinion, they provide a minimum rating for worst case situations, or at least the average situation. In many cases, you can operate that implement with less horsepower if you either go slower or, in the case of a tiller, go shallower on the first pass, or in the case of a mower, use more overlap, etc.. The other, usually referred to as the "gear box" rating, is the maximum horsepower that won't tear up that implement. As one example, I used a Bush Hog RTS40 and as you can see in the link, it's rated for a horsepower range of 15 to 40. I was quite happy with it on a tractor with only 13 PTO hp.

Now of course that's me, my opinion, and the work I was doing. Your mileage may vary. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

jwease · May 28, 2005

Thanks for the replies. It answered my concern. I realize both tractors have their advantages and its up to me to decide. Its not going to be easy. But its been fun researching and looking.

AutoUnionTypeC · May 29, 2005

Hello John, I own a CK20 gear and have had no problem running my 47" tiller. I also mow with my CK and its weight hasn't been a problem at all. I think the 2210 would be the better mowing machine while the CK20 would be the stronger candidate for just about everything else. It’s really a tough comparison as the 2210 is a Sub-CUT and the CK20 a small framed CUT. Both will do the job….. you just need to figure out each models strengths and apply them to your needs and priorities. Good luck and enjoy the hunt.
Regards, Jamie

KiotiJohn · May 29, 2005

I use a Woods 52" tiller with four tines per flange on my CK20HST with no problems. I cut a garden in my back yard this year, right through the turf on the first pass, full depth. The HST allows me to hit just the right speed to get a good first pass without lugging down much.
I think you would like the clearance of a small frame CUT better than what most SUB CUTs offer.
The CK20 is an excellent tractor. i sometimes mow my lawn with the brush cutter with no rutting, but then I don't have clay soil as some do and that can rut with most any tractor.

John