PTO PROBLEMS

[DIRTROAD]

I have a 1993 Massey Ferguson 231 with right around 1800 hard hours on it. My problem is that the PTO has started disengaging itself while in use. It is not a violent disengage, but it seems to just very gently slip out of gear. I have been using a bungy cord with very little pressure to hold it engaged and this seems to work just fine.

My question is...

What is my problem? Is there a detent inside the case that is worn out or is it a larger issue? How hard of a fix is it? Is it better to keep using it as is with my bungy cord or will the problem get progressively worse and the bungy become ineffective?

I don't really want to spend any major money on the tractor.

 

[Travis_R]

I have a 1993 Massey Ferguson 231 with right around 1800 hard hours on it. My problem is that the PTO has started disengaging itself while in use. It is not a violent disengage, but it seems to just very gently slip out of gear. I have been using a bungy cord with very little pressure to hold it engaged and this seems to work just fine.

My question is...

What is my problem? Is there a detent inside the case that is worn out or is it a larger issue? How hard of a fix is it? Is it better to keep using it as is with my bungy cord or will the problem get progressively worse and the bungy become ineffective?

I don't really want to spend any major money on the tractor.

You have a tough, solid and dependable tractor. Congratulations!

I have a 231 also. It's a '98 model with 940+ hours. I haven't had this problem with mine. But i haven't used the PTO too much either. Little bush hogging and a little firewood splitting with the "Bark Buster" log splitter but that's it.

Anyway, maybe it's a bent/wore out shift fork or something? I'm not sure. It don't sound like it would be a major fix though.

Whatever you find the problem to be, PLEASE POST BACK and let us other 231 owners know what it was.

Another poster on here, "Farmwithjunk", might be able to help you. He's very knowledgeable with the Masseys...

Thanks and Good Luck!

 

[Soundguy]

with machine off, go to the pto shaft stub on the tractor and yank / push on it.. if there is in / out play.. at all, and it is a mechanical engaged 'dog clutch' / sliding collar pto engagement mechanism, then the in / out play will let the pto shaft walk the collar out of engagement. this usually eventually chews up the ID splines on the collar and OD engagement splines on the pto shaft .. cause can be many things from a slipped / broken retaining ring, bad bearing carrier, bad bearing.. bad wear sleavee.. etc.

this of course all asusmes a mechanical pto and not a hyd independent pto.

i'm no a MF guy.. ( farmwithjunk IS ).. however i'm very familair with the type of sliding collar pto engagement I just spke about.. and it's commonly used.. or at least was anyway.

other possible causes are wear / damage tot he actual fork or shifter mechanism that moves the dog clutch / collar.

soundguy

 

[Travis_R]

I have a 1993 Massey Ferguson 231 with right around 1800 hard hours on it. My problem is that the PTO has started disengaging itself while in use. It is not a violent disengage, but it seems to just very gently slip out of gear. I have been using a bungy cord with very little pressure to hold it engaged and this seems to work just fine.

My question is...

What is my problem? Is there a detent inside the case that is worn out or is it a larger issue? How hard of a fix is it? Is it better to keep using it as is with my bungy cord or will the problem get progressively worse and the bungy become ineffective?

I don't really want to spend any major money on the tractor.

... I forgot about "Soundguy" (sorry Soundguy!), he is another Very knowledgeable person on here who knows about tractors in general.

 

[Soundguy]

... I forgot about "Soundguy" (sorry Soundguy!), he is another Very knowledgeable person on here who knows about tractors in general.

i'm a ford guy mostly.. FWJ is the MF expert.

still.. many tractors share some similarities.. ford / ferguson perhaps more than others.. but again.. I'm not totally familiar with his model other than seeing them before.. etc. it may have a completely different shifter mechanism..

soundguy

 

[DIRTROAD]

I checked for play in the PTO shaft itself. Everything is tight both up & down and in & out. No leaks around the seal that would indicate prior movement either. No movement whatsoever.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Most likely a problem with the detent on the PTO shift lever. Relatively easy fix.

 

[Soundguy]

no pto slop is a good sign so far.

hopefully the detent is just week as FWJ said.

keep us posted.

soundguy

 

[Travis_R]

Dirtroad,

Where does the needle on the temperature gauge usually stay at when you're bush hogging with the 231 ?

My temp gauge is original. Half of the gauge where the needle reads is "green" (normal operating temperature) and the other part is "white" (meaning it's running on the hot side) and the radiator needs to be cleaned.

For some reason, I'm thinking mine is running more on the "warm" side than it should. I NEVER let the needle get in the "white" because I'm scared that's too hot for it and may blow a head gasket.

With the radiator cleaned out, while bush hogging (meaning tractor's under load), I'm guessing the needle STAYS about a quarter inch or so from the "white" area of the gauge.

Also, I sometimes have to add anti-freeze to the radiator, but not often... Is this normal??

I'm just concerned, that's all...

 

[Soundguy]

is it boiling out.. or are you getting it in the crank case oil.

if it was a gasser I'd say look at the plugs for steam cleaning.

soundguy

 

[Travis_R]

is it boiling out.. or are you getting it in the crank case oil.

if it was a gasser I'd say look at the plugs for steam cleaning.

soundguy

It does boil some out, but stops doing so once it thinks it's "got enough" (LOL) in the radiator.
Farmwithjunk said this is normal for the Massey's with the same engine as I have...

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...g-operating/210573-my-mf-231-running-too.html

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. fords do the same.. they boil off most of the water over the core.. then are fine.. unless you keep adding water in which case they keep boiling it off.. et

soundguy

 

[DIRTROAD]

In a "Down Flow" system, like the ones found on these tractors, the proper water level should be so that the top tank is filled about halfway up to the fill neck. This allows for the expansion due to pressurization. Since these tractors do not have an overflow tank, if they are overfilled, it will just push the excess water out onto the ground.

The reason that a radiator cap has a pressure indicator on it (ie. 16 lbs.) is because when water is pressurized it raises the boiling point. Just like when water is placed in a vacuum the boiling point is lowered.

Make sure that you are not overfilling the radiator and make sure that the radiator cap is working properly (The factory ones are junk). This should fix your problem but, If you continue to have troubles after this, you may need to adapt an overflow catch and recovery tank like modern vehicles have on them. That way if it pushes water out it can be recovered by the tractor.

 

[Travis_R]

In a "Down Flow" system, like the ones found on these tractors, the proper water level should be so that the top tank is filled about halfway up to the fill neck. This allows for the expansion due to pressurization. Since these tractors do not have an overflow tank, if they are overfilled, it will just push the excess water out onto the ground.

The reason that a radiator cap has a pressure indicator on it (ie. 16 lbs.) is because when water is pressurized it raises the boiling point. Just like when water is placed in a vacuum the boiling point is lowered.

Make sure that you are not overfilling the radiator and make sure that the radiator cap is working properly (The factory ones are junk). This should fix your problem but, If you continue to have troubles after this, you may need to adapt an overflow catch and recovery tank like modern vehicles have on them. That way if it pushes water out it can be recovered by the tractor.

Dirtroad,

Do you know if the 231 has a thermostat somewhere in the cooling system?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Dirtroad,

Do you know if the 231 has a thermostat somewhere in the cooling system?

YES! I've worked on a couple 135 diesel years ago that weren't ever warming up all the way to operating temp. (even in hot weather. Found BOTH to have had the t-stats removed.

 

[Travis_R]

Do you think it would be a good idea to remove it and run the tractor without it??

 

[Soundguy]

no.. running without a thermostat leads to a sludged up engine.

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

no.. running without a thermostat leads to a sludged up engine.

soundguy

What he said^^^^^

Thermostats are there for a number of good reasons.

 

[Neilhikk]

I (we) have a MF 150 that the pto won`t engage? Worked fine, except for a ittle grinding when engaging, now the pto won`t engage at all? Anyone have any advice, I`m stumped. Thanks in advance for any help.