PTO Speed

[fullauto]

Hi folks. New to the forum, which I enjoy, and new to tractors (mid-life crazies). My question is in regards to pto speed. I have a little Jinma 220 with a 5 foot Sitrex finishing mower. The decal on the mower indicates 540 rpm. I'm under the impression that I set the pto to the 540 position. My insane father in law says he runs his same equipment at the 1000 setting because the 540 "won't do squat". He's the type where it's full speed ahead, break it, sell it........ I have now mowed twice, approx. 90 minutes per session at the 1000 rpm setting in 1st gear high. Will that harm my little tractor, implement, etc? Or should I just keep on trucking at 1000 as my father in law suggests. I searched for a tutorial on pto speeds and came up empty as far as cause and effect, etc.

Thank you.

 

[Soundguy]

Equipment made for 540 pto rpm needs to be run 'near' that range.. IE.. I imagine +/- perhaps 8-10% and no problems. However.. running 1000 pto rpm on a 540 mower is sure to test the parts..I'd -EXPECT- a reduced service life on the mower.

Some people will use a 1000rpm setting, and then throttle their tractor down to where the pto is still making 540 rpm. However.. this is only possible in situations where you nee dthe rpm.. but not lotsa HP.. as most tractors have their power band very near their pto speed/ engine speed setting.

An example would be a cone spreader... select 1000 rpm pto and then run at half rated engine rpm and put around and still get good broadcast range cuz the spready don't need hardly any pto hp.. etc.

You said it yerself.. your FIL abuses equipment.. What do you think of the advice from someone who abuses equipment??? Do you expect any different results from your equipment, applying the same logic as you observe your FIL apply?

Soundguy

 

[RonMar]

I would NEVER overspeed a mower. There is a lot of centrifigal force involved in spinning blades. If your deck decides to throw one, then you are not gonna like the results. Best case, the blade stub imbeds itself in and destoys one of the tractor tires. Worst case, it departs the scene at rapid speed and kills some innocent onlooker. The out of balance condition that results is also probably going to destroy the rest of the mower in short order.

You get 540 PTO RPM when the PTO gearing is engaged and the engine is at the PTO rated RPM. This is usually near the peak or full rated RPM(where all the HP lives). It is usually indicated by a green band on the tachometer and is also usually the full throttle or maximum governed RPM on a diesel tractor(around 2300 RPM on my Jinma). When I brushhog, I engage the 540 PTO, spool up the blades with the clutch at a low engine RPM then increase the throttle slowly to full to place the tach needle in the green arc. I leave the throttle at full and use gear selection to determine the tractor speed over ground. If I had enough HP to run my 5' brushhog at a lower RPM, I could get the same mower/PTO RPM with the PTO lever in the 1000 position and running 1/2 the rated engine RPM(around 1150 on my Jinma)). This of course is less than 1/2 the rated HP so I don't see myself doing it with my brushhog.

As Soundguy mentioned, devices that take less HP to run such as a spreader, a 1000 PTO RPM setting allows you to run the engine at a reduced RPM to save wear and tear on the engine, save some fuel and reduce the noise. But caution must be used as a simple movement of the throttle while set to 1000, can result in an overspeed of the device attached.

 

[fullauto]

I appreciate both of your replies. I felt (you confirmed) that was probably the case. The rest of the lesson you provided me with is a bonus. Thank you very much for the help.

 

[greg_g]

The mower manufacturer almost certainly specifies 540 operation, check the manual to make sure. Set the hand throttle on your Jinma so that the tach needle is at the green mark. Select your ground speed with the range and gear levers. Use the foot throttle if/when you need those last few RPMs when you turn around to mow back uphill.

//greg//

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Ronmar gave excellent advice about engaging the PTO at low RPM on the mower. My neighbor threw a bush hog blade this spring. It cracked in 2 at the pivot hole. The only other significant looking damage to the blade was on the back side where the blades would clack together on startup. The crack at the hole looked like it originated during such a startup event.

Luckily the blade just caught the side of the mower and went in the dirt.

Brad

 

[3RRL]

Welcome to the forum.
You got a pretty good tractor for the money, I'll bet. You will get a bunch of answers for a whole bunch of reasons but all I can say is use 540 PTO rpm for a 540 PTO rpm rated cutter. That is, spin the PTO at 540 rpm. You can use the 1000 PTO speed range if your tractor has enough horsepower and torque, but lower the tractor engine rpm so that the PTO is still spinning only 540rpm or thereabouts. That's the best advice I can give you.

 

[millpond]

Soundguy et al...I'm totally confused with PTO speed variance vs rpm's which
obviously is controlled through engine throttle. On the New Holland TC 55 DA there is NO feathering the clutch to engage PTO. I run throttle all the way down to idle and engage PTO slowly as I've had shear pin issues with
Wallenstein BX 62, although FIL bought grade 5 vs grade 8 which I know will solve that issue. But my question is how would I vary rear PTO speed other than through engine speed/rpm's. I'm a total rookie here, but I know when I'm running BX 62 I run rpm's lower than 2600, as I just don't think it needs to be that high. But you can get 540 at different rpm's off engine..?

 

[fullauto]

Thanks to you all for taking the time to help me through this. I hope to return the favor to someone soon. For the record, My tractor is an 04 Jinma 220 with a Sitrex, 5 foot, rear discharge finishing mower, The tractor has a tad over 200 hours on it, excellent turf tires, and the hydraulics (3 pt hitch) are strong and everything appears to be in good working order. The guy I purchased it from (3,800 for both items) used it to mow his yard (st. augustine) and my use will be mowing my yard (approx one and a half acres) consisting of all things green; bermuda, centipede, all weeds indigenous to the western hemisphere, etc and perhaps to work an occasional garden spot no larger than 60 by 40 or so (feet).I have a really sweet 03 Harley Road King Classic which I'm considering selling to purchase another tractor with FEL (I have this strong urge to purchase a large dump truck load of dirt and then just start moving the pile from one location to another). Anyway, that's my tractor and once again, thanks for your help.

 

[3RRL]

Soundguy et al...I'm totally confused with PTO speed variance vs rpm's which
obviously is controlled through engine throttle. On the New Holland TC 55 DA there is NO feathering the clutch to engage PTO. I run throttle all the way down to idle and engage PTO slowly as I've had shear pin issues with
Wallenstein BX 62, although FIL bought grade 5 vs grade 8 which I know will solve that issue. But my question is how would I vary rear PTO speed other than through engine speed/rpm's. I'm a total rookie here, but I know when I'm running BX 62 I run rpm's lower than 2600, as I just don't think it needs to be that high. But you can get 540 at different rpm's off engine..?

millpond,
What Chris (soundguy) is talking about is when your PTO has 2 speed options. I don't know what it is on your NH. But here is an example.
Your Rated PTO speed is generally achieved by revving the engine to it's operating rpm...let's say that's 2600 engine rpm in your case.

Now when you rev the engine to 2600rpm and you have your PTO in the 540 PTO setting, then the PTO will turn 540rpm or thereabouts.
If you put the PTO selector into the 1000 PTO range and run the engine at 2600rpm, the PTO will now turn 1000rpm.
So if you throttle the engine rpm down to1404rpm, the PTO will turn 540rpm at that engine speed when in the 1000 PTO range.
Does that make sense to you?

 

[Soundguy]

Millpond. 3RRL made a good explanation.

I'll also add that not all tractors have a pto capable of multi speeds. Many of the small japanese and chinese tractors do. Many larger fords and NHs do.. but requires a pto stub swap to achieve the 1000 rpm speed.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[greg_g]

Does that make sense to you?

Probably not. The TC55DA has no PTO speed select, it's a fixed 540. Since it's almost a given that the Boomer has a hydrostatic transmission, there'll be no live PTO and no friction clutch. I can't find any TC48/55 spec sheets to confirm it, so I'm guessing some sorta magnetic PTO engagement. Apples and oranges to the OP question. But even if millpond's got the 12x12 shuttle, there still isn't any PTO speed choice. With only 540 RPM gearing available, the 1000 analogy isn't applicable.

//greg//

 

[millpond]

Rob yes it does, but here's the hitch. I have only engaged the PTO lever all the way. I assumed that engagement was what that left sliding lever was for, but are you saying that engagement half way is what I should really have been doing. I don't think the display around engagement lever has any
speed settings. I have totally missed the boat on this one. I understand 540 vs 1000 but man I have not seen where I need to regulate that PTO speed.
Can anyone help with New Holland TC 55 DA operating here. Bill And thanks again Rob/Chris all.

 

[millpond]

Chris/Rob/Greg...I've got it now. The TC 55 DA is Hydrostatic 12/12 and there
is no PTO speed variance so I'm good, or at least I've been kinda doing everything right so far. Thanks guys. So I guess I'll never be running anything at 1000. Bill

 

[3RRL]

millpond,
I apologize for not knowing your NH does not have a 2 speed PTO...duh.
But for tractors that do, my explanation stands as posted.

 

[Soundguy]

millpond,
I apologize for not knowing your NH does not have a 2 speed PTO...duh.
But for tractors that do, my explanation stands as posted.

Considering his 1st post does state he was running at a 1000rpm pto setting.. it does tend to confust things here.

This is the point where I like to tell people to get a manual for their tractor.. so they know a few basinc things about it's operation. After all.. why own a few thousand dollars of iron.. and not own a few dozen dollars worth of paper?

Does anyone know what is the smalles NH unit that has dual pto speed capability? I believe the 5/6/7610S series all do. ( I know my 7610s does.. and the manual seems to indicate those 3 models do. ) I guess I had kinda figured the 55 might as it should be a similar sized machine as the 5610s.. course.. with a hydro tranny.. that's a big difference than the 8sp crashbox.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[leslie428]

PTO problems, can anyone help, Please!! Jinma 284LE 2005 vintage, Loader, backhoe, snowblower, chipper, cultivator, plow, log splitter, generator, mower, bush cutter, scraper/grader plow.
Problem: PTO, once engaged, makes a horrible noise (high shrill) and when I press the clutch all the way, it is still engaged. When I disengage PTO, the noise is gone and the PTO is stopped. The speed control for the PTO is in neutral during this excercise.
Worked like a charm for two years clearing snow, I have 62 hours on the tractor.
I have adjusted my clutch, 2.5mm for fingers to release bearing, 2mm for the PTO settings. I have increased the pedal travel by two full turns.
I have replaced all the fluids in the tractor when I first got it. I am in northern Quebec in Canada and do not have a local, nearby dealer.
Any ideas??

 

[leslie428]

Here are some pictures of the settings of the engage lever, the speed lever and the settings on the clutch. I also show you that a simple hanger that you choose and measure will do the trick for a guage of 2.5mm for the clutch fingers adjustment.
The high grinding noise is influenced by the clutch. When I disengage the clutch, (push it all the way in) the grinding stops, when I lift my foot just a bit, it will start up and then stop. The PTO is moving through this excercise, it never disengages unless I pull the disengage lever up.
Help!!!!

 

[RonMar]

There is an inner and outer shaft thru the transmission which is how the dual clutch controls the torque to the PTO separate from the main transmission. The PTO is the inner shaft. You could possibly have a lubrication problem to this inner shaft. This has been noted by several people. I don't recall the exact fix.

You might also get more responses if you start a fresh topic in this chinese tractor forum.

 

[leslie428]

Thanks, I have posted a new thread called PTO problems
I will give the shaft a couple of hits with a rubber mallet and see what happens, maybe the shaft will become loose.
Do you think I can spray some grease in there with one of those spray grease cans? I suspect grease in a clutch is a no no!
Thanks RonMar