Pump Failure in Effluent chamber

[6sunset6]

The older I get the more scared I am about doing something dumb. Mostly I don't want to read in the paper about how some home owner died at the bottom of a hole. Me. My septic tank dumps into an effluent chamber that has an alternating pump system pumping to the leach field 550 ft away and 15' up hill.
I built it myself maybe 20 years ago. Today they use pumps on rail systems so no one has to go down in the chamber. Mine are plumbed in with unions in the chamber. At the beginning I had 3 bad pumps under warranty. Got to climb down there 9' and replace them. Hard wired in with solder and shrink tubing as well.
It's been 14 years and the No 1 pump just failed. Same as the other 3. It is the plastic leaf spring that throws out the starting coil breaking. Anyway I an now concerned about confined spaces , lack of oxygen and other nasty things down there . In the past I used a shop vac and stuck the hose down to the bottom and let it rip. I am still alive . How ever I am really concerned about that newspaper article. Supplied air respirators would be the ticket but they cost $400 and up mostly up Noish approved. My plan is to still use the shop vac to blow out all the nasty stuff but then also use a continuous flow
1/2 mask, around $100. They only need 1 psi, some sort of blower would do it. I am going to use my oiless nail gun compressor, dialed all the way down on the regulator.
I put in some 2" conduit so I can feed the pump plug up top and plug it in, limiting time down in the hole.
Anybody have a better idea? Besides hiring it out.

 

[atgreene]

Confined spaces, particularly in a septic tank, are nothing to mess with. Any chance you can borrow a meter from the local FD to test before entry? I've done a lot of confined space entries with the FD, trained on getting people out etc.....

If you can't meter it first, you may want to set up a harness and tripod with a haul system just in case. Instruct whoever is helping you to NOT enter the hole no matter what. Use the tripod/winch to lift you out.

Your other option is to find an old FD SCBA. Tanks are easy to get filled, as long as it's a positive pressure system it will give you 20 minutes or so. Still should have a tripod and haul system no matter what.

 

[5030]

Sounds like a sh*tty situation.

I'd hire it out.

I used to do silly things as well. Amazing, the older you get, the more you think about things and that thinking is what makes you hesitant.

 

[mmurphy]

Is this a dry well with fittings hooked to pump?
A small town I worked at some years ago, we had a furnace fan with duct work that went down 26 feet. We started it up a hour before going in to push air down the duct, causing air to flow to the top. This was a dry well. We were lucky and never had a problem with out monitoring for the likes of hydrogen sulfide. It only takes one time to make it your last day, so maybe a municipal system may come down and monitor for you briefly. It does not hurt to ask.

 

[aczlan]

We have a pair of grinder pumps down ~20 feet in a holding tank at the hotel where I work. That is the one thing that I wont touch. Just the idea of going down into said tank with water and other things raining down from the input pipe makes me uncomfortable.

Aaron Z

 

[EHR]

Get a large fan with some way to direct the airflow into your tank. I used to work for the Telco and since I was smaller than most of my coworkers I worked in the manholes alot. We would meter it first but with a blower system you should be alright.

 

[dieselbeef]

dont take the chance..gases unknown to your smell can easily overcome u..then whoever finds you will go in to help and also die

this is a bad situation that con aonly become instantly worse..get a meter from a rental place or the fired dept and check it and if poss get one the fd guys to stand by..savin a cpl bucks can easily kill you when that methane gas gets hold of ya..or hydrogyn sulfide

what yer painting isnt a pretty picture..be safe

gary

 

[6sunset6]

All right I am still alive and the pump is replaced. Shop vac blowing down the hole , all fittings duct taped. Supplied Air Respirator, fittings taped, running off nail gun compressor. Wife as safety , she is a very smart lady but could use improvement as a helper on a pump chamber job. She could not stand the smell. Although after 15 min of blowing it out the smell was mostly gone. With the SAR I did not smell anything. Life has to have some risk, I did not rig a haul out system. The SAR I used was a $100 version for paint spraying. Half mask. I could not see much difference between it and full face mask a version that had all the Osha approvals for $300. Except my safety glasses fogged up really bad and since they don't allow much air flow, I got really hot.
Nice to know it all worked.

 

[MikeD74T]

Sunset, You took good precautions. I work with confined spaces on a daily basis & have 2 jobs going right now, one inert gas welding in a small tank, the other mucking out a sump that has strong ammonia in the effluent. Ventilation is the key to being safe, monitoring confirms the plan. One thing you might want to do different next time, since your space has a top opening, draw air from the space rather than supply, to assure heavier than air gases get removed. Shop vacs move a lot of air and do this very well. Shop-vac page has an airflow chart for it's models. Calculate the volume & do at least 3 air changes before entering. MikeD74t

 

[6sunset6]

Good idea about sucking out. Next time. I will probably be 90. I hope. The reason I blew down was to avoid methane or some other combustible going near the motor. Although I don't think shop vac motors have brushes and they are probably sealed anyway. Having done it I think sucking out would have allowed the shop vac to direct the out flow further away.
As it was the exhaust sort of rose up around the opening, until it was cleaned out.
By the way What do you know about oxygen monitors? I saw one for $220 maybe . Did not say anything about end of life. Do they run out of time?. Is there any quick and easy way to do it? I thought about a candle or a canary. I was concerned about methane with the candle and I don't have a canary, Tough on the bird though.

 

[MikeD74T]

Have 8 multi gas monitors hanging on my office wall. Expensive to buy & to maintain. Sensors wear out & test gas must be purchased to ensure the meter is actually working. You don't want to bet your life on a meter that lies to you! Unless flammable gases are involved a candle in a jar will do the trick. Spent many hours on a diesel submarine where the O2 was so low that you couldn't light a match or keep a cigarette burning (most wouldn't want to but there's always someone....). A candle would extinguish in air that will still support life. BTW methane is just over 1/2 the density of air so it will leave an top opened space quickly. MikeD74T

 

[6sunset6]

Thanks Mike Very helpful

 

[6sunset6]

This was a never ending PITA.
Thanks again Mike, I have been down in the tank 4-5 more times. The wet vac sucking out from the bottom is the way to go. Does not even smell after 15 min.
Not that it is nice though. Candle burned with out wet vac at all.
After installing the new pump , the on float switch stopped working. Of course it took a while to figuire that out, a chattering contactor , and maybe a corroded manual auto switch. Along the way the high alarm went off a few times , the way it is supposed to. The first time was sometime in the early AM ,the first I new is when my neightbor stopped by and told me he heard it at 6:30 AM, thought we were on vac and came down and reset it. So I started logging the hours on the pumps and the alternator position to see what was failing.
Before I found it ( it only pumps every couple of days) the State Police were pounding on the door at 4AM . told us a neighbor(different one ) called in the alarm. So I put some tape over the buzzer and kept logging. All right making a really long story short when I put everything it I spliced the cords at the bottom of the sump , soldered and heat shrunk and heat shrunk again with the glue melting kind. Looks like maybe a nick in the insulation just before the splice or whatever is down there ate through everything. I think when I cut loose the old pump I jiggled everything and it broke the float switch wire.
Don't ask why I spliced everything down there , it was 20 years ago . But now I put in a new 2" conduit to a new box up top and fed the 20' cords from the pump and new switch straight up out side. As the others fail , if they do I will reroute new cords.
Also all the tie wraps securing the float switch wires were gone. The only thing holding everything in position was all the crud growing all over everything. I guess I will have to use ss band clamps next time I go down there.
New question , As good as I try to seal the conduit openings from the control and now splice box to the tank chamber I seem to get moisture in the enclosures. I put a heat tape in the control unit box which seems to help with corrosion but I still get moisture puddling in the bottom of the enclosures.
I was thinking of a drain hole with a screen over it. What does anyone think about this?

 

[Kays Supply]

I am currently servicing a pump I put in 2 years ago. The 12 girls in the dorm finished it off. I put it in with a pipe ran up close to the top and a union located there. I can pull it out from the top. No mess or gas. I also put a float switch on a solenoid valve so that just after the alarm sounds the main water line to the dorm shuts off. No flooded basement apartments that way. That has happened several times with storms and other things.

 

[SPIKER]

That is just a plane $hitty job I tell ya.. :x
\
Mark

 

[KSagal]

Question to those who might know...

I had a pump in a similar tank replaced, and was told by the plumber on the job that he he uses black electrical tape as a band strap. He said that the tie wraps, and all metal (including stainless) clamps will fail.

He did use other clamps like plastic and tie wraps to hold wires and switch in place, but also used several (like 25 or 30) wraps of black plastic tape.

What say you who may know if he was on or off the target?

 

[Kays Supply]

He is telling you pretty much as it is. Some of the tie wraps I have used failed. BUT, cheap electrical tape will turn to goo. I use both, wraps and tape. I also solder all connections that are inside the pit. Also the gas can creep up any conduit that runs from the pit to electrical boxes. It will play havoc with the connections inside the box.