Pushing Trailers?

[BobRip]

Thanks for all the replies!


Bob Rip's King Kutter dump trailer looks like it would be a good alternative. It comes with both a ball and a pin hitch. Plus the shape would be better for general junk hauling. The PT power dumper seemed to be more bulk material oriented. I guess I will have to mosey over to Tractor Supply and see how much they cost.

I am not sure I can recomment the King Kutter trailer. It did not come with ball hitch, I added that. Also was was not a trailer, but a wagon, when I got it. I welded the steering and moved the front axle back to turn it into a trailer. I also added additional bolts when the front axle came off and added a welded brace between the front and back axle. It was right expensive at Northern at about $700 (if my memory is right). The PT trailer came out soon after I got it and I thought, wow, that's much better for my purposes. You have to hand pump the dump and the first time I dumped it the front axle came off. It was called an estate wagon at Northern and I think it is designed from smooth ground.

 

[SnowRidge]

I have Country Manufacturing's model 7500 seven foot tandem axle trailer, with the hydraulic dump option. I don't see any reason you couldn't use a powered dump cylinder instead of the manual one.

I whacked off the pin hitch and welded a 2" coupler to the tongue, which is nice and long for a small trailer. These trailers aren't pretty, but they sure are hard to break. So far I haven't succeeded, and I'm pretty good at breaking things.

 

[KentT]

I have Country Manufacturing's model 7500 seven foot tandem axle trailer, with the hydraulic dump option. I don't see any reason you couldn't use a powered dump cylinder instead of the manual one.

I whacked off the pin hitch and welded a 2" coupler to the tongue, which is nice and long for a small trailer. These trailers aren't pretty, but they sure are hard to break. So far I haven't succeeded, and I'm pretty good at breaking things.

That's the same one I have... I need to put a coupler on it, but right now I'm just using the pin. Mine also has the hydraulic dump option.

Unfortunately, my friend screwed the controls on the hydraulic pump out too far when the bed stuck in the raised position -- basically backing the whole plunger out of the pump, and losing it's "prime." I putzed with it an hour or so and could never get it bled enough to pump with it... and that's how it sits.

I've been thinking about putting either a dump cylinder on it, on an electric actuator, but that's WAY down on the priority list. Ideally, I'd like to have a set of rear remote hydraulic couplers, controlled with an electric soleniod, but that would be some serious $$...

 

[zzvyb6]

If you can get some welding done, add a hitch bridle to the back. This is like a car hauling tow bar: 2 pivot points with an angle iron "A" frame. Load the trailer to neutral bouyancy. Then hook your tractor to the other end and bring it home driving forwards.

Until you can back up a trailer on a trailer, or a trailer on a baler (wagon steering no less). you've not backed up anything. It can be done easily with some frequent practise. Good mirrors and VERY slow motion will impress anybody watching.

I once watched a local farmer bring over 2 Percheron horses pulling a short, wagon steered buckboard. "Dick" and "Bob" were their names. It took an 8' step ladder for the girl to get up on their back.

He talked them backwards out the diveway, just the way they came in. The way they snorted told him they were having fun doing it ! Apparently there are contests around here for showing these types of horse event skills
.

 

[ponytug]

One of my first farm jobs was parking tandem hay wagons in the barn, and parallel parked next to it.
The first couple of times were not pretty, but after that, parking single trailer anythings is a breeze.

My mom knows a guy in Wisconsin that logs with trained oxen teams. He hooks them up to the log in the forest and they haul it out to the log yard, where someone else unhooks them. The oxen turn around and go back up into the woods to get the next log. By themselves, both ways. I hear he gets five figures for them when he sells them; apparently for small time operators they are much more cost effective than tractors and extra hands, as well as being able to skid logs without needing roads.

All the best,

Peter

If you can get some welding done, add a hitch bridle to the back. This is like a car hauling tow bar: 2 pivot points with an angle iron "A" frame. Load the trailer to neutral bouyancy. Then hook your tractor to the other end and bring it home driving forwards.

Until you can back up a trailer on a trailer, or a trailer on a baler (wagon steering no less). you've not backed up anything. It can be done easily with some frequent practise. Good mirrors and VERY slow motion will impress anybody watching.

I once watched a local farmer bring over 2 Percheron horses pulling a short, wagon steered buckboard. "Dick" and "Bob" were their names. It took an 8' step ladder for the girl to get up on their back.

He talked them backwards out the diveway, just the way they came in. The way they snorted told him they were having fun doing it ! Apparently there are contests around here for showing these types of horse event skills
.

 

[baanista]

Thanks for the King Kutter feedback Bob. Their current offering on the web is a trailer and the pin hitch is supposed to be hidden somewhere on the frame, ready to be swapped for the ball hitch. But your feedback on their build quality is greatly appreciated.

The PT dump trailer had a number of clever features to let you load it, set your bucket in a rack on the trailer, quick connect to the trailer and zoom off to where ever and then dump the load without getting out of your seat. The more trips back and forth you make, the more sense it would make. Of course if I needed a whole lot of material, paying some guy to deliver it by the dump truck load might end up being more cost and time effective.

The other issue is what I might use the thing for the rest of the time. The PT dump trailer is deep with sloped sides on the top half. This is probably great for moving loose materials but flat bottom trailer or wagon would work better for hauling everything else. The CMI trailer or wagon with the dump option might be a good compromise.

So what is the trade off between a wagon and a trailer? My only experience with tractor pulled wagons is being a passenger on a hayride. I did gather that backing up wagons makes you appreciate the ease of backing up a trailer.

Off topic, I can't resist making a remark about zzvyb6's sig. He notes that while there is no I in team, if you transpose some letters you can get a me. I would add to that by pointing out that there is an I in Win, and another in Victory and 3 I's in Invincible.

David

 

[MossRoad]

So what is the trade off between a wagon and a trailer?

From what I can see:

A wagon has a steerable front axle and a trailer does not.

A trailer has to skid a tire or two in tight turns while a wagon does not.

A trailer is probably less likely to tip over then a wagon at extreme turning angles if the wagon is a type that the whole front axle pivots.

A wagon supports all of the load on its axles while a trailer can transfer some of the load onto the tow vehicle through the tongue. That can be a good and bad thing... loading a trailer to the front increases traction on the rear axle of the tow vehicle; but it can also lighten the load on the front steering axle of the tow vehicle. The opposite can also occur by loading the rear of the trailer down to the point of lifting the rear axle of the tow vehicle which decreases the tow vehicle traction.

A trailer is easier to back up when on the rear of the tow vehicle. A wagon is extremely easy to back up when on the front of a tow vehicle when moving slowly in tight quarters. I used to stack airplane hangars for a living and an airplane is much like a wagon.

You never see a wagon on the highway at high speed, just trailers, with the exception of a double trailer... the last trailer pretty much acts like a wagon.

Anyhow, that's my take on the two.

 

[SnowRidge]

Moss pretty well sums if up. I'll jut add that the CM trailer PT combo works really well because you have two pivot points, thanks to the articulation of the Power Trac. It is very easy to back the trailer around corners in extremely tight quarters -- places it would be virtually impossible to get a wagon to without dismounting and hand maneuvering it.

It is also no wider than my PT-425, so I can take it anywhere the PT can go, which was a big factor in my purchasing it. The seven foot length gives it plenty of capacity. I tow it over hilly ex pasture with a full 60 gallon tank of water and a bunch of planting tools. The combination works very well.

I am very pleased with the trailer.

 

[BobRip]

Moss, sums it up well. Backing was my issue with the wagon, now it is a trailer and I like it much better. I rarely used it as a wagon (could not back it to save my life), and now I use it fairly routinely as a trailer and backup it in normal use.