Questions about Alfalfa.

[plumboy]

Got 25 acres I'm working in shape to bail some alfalfa on.By mid summer I'll be ready to seed should I wait til fall?I'm planing on getting about 1800 - 2200 per cutting,how much storage space am I looking at?What do some of you get per bail?Here in central Ky it can go for $3.50 a bail and up to $10 for pure(Woodford Feed - #77 bail is $10).I know weather is the biggest obstacle but I think I'm underestimating the amount of labor so a reality check please. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

First thing you need to do is a soil sample and make sure your ph is right. Almost always you need to add lime to get your ph right. Midsummer is definitely not the time to plant alfalfa. Your best time to plant alfalfa is spring. You can plant it in late fall after the last frost. You want to make sure you won't get any growth though as it will be killed out with freezing if it does sprout.

1800-2200 bales is a tremendous amount of work. Have you done this before? If you haven't you are in for a rude awakening. Square baling is extremely hard work and takes alot of hours. You are going to need a very big area to store that many bales. My hay barn has a loft for hay that is 40x100. I can get about 6000 bales in it stacked clear to the top, about 15'.

As far as price it can go anywhere from $1.00 to $10.00/bale depending on the quality and availability.

 

[plumboy]

Thanks cowboydoc.As far as the soil its been farmed for years and not been taken care of at all.I just finished subsoiling and taking the samples.Also will do heavy landscaping to get rid of the two low spots that wont drain well.I have a clay mix and am tossing the ideal of spreading some sand and disc in as well as the lime which I'm sure I will need.I had a part in straw when I was younger but that didnt amount to much.I'll probobly wait till spring of '05 then to seed.But if I hussle I might be able to get out late spring early summer.Still not a good Ideal?I'd really like to be able to bail in '05.But no rush I still need to get a new barn up.And is it a good ideal to sell in late winter when prices are better.

 

[rambler]

This all depends on your location. 'Here' we can plant in spring, or in September. Basically you need to catch a rain & cooler temps to keep the soil moist for a while. you _won't_ get that in the middle of summer!

What do you plan for weed control for $10 hay? That's a dream price. Plan on selling a lot more for $2 than $10!!!! Plan on losing a cutting totally every now & then to rain. I lost the 2nd cutting this year to aphids. Be careful how you budget for this project.

It's doable. Not trying to talk you out of it, but for high-quality alfalfa, you have _very_ tight timeframes to get your tasks done & beat the rain - will you have time? Bale at 10:00am & it's too wet, bale at 4:00pm & it can be too dry lose all the leaves, bale at 7:00pm and it's too wet again - here. Wait 5 extra days to cut it, & you lose $1-6 a bale on protien loss, plus hurt the next cutting....

Timing is everything with alfalfa hay.

--->Paul

 

[plumboy]

I have never seen alfalfa go for less than $4 a bail.$3.50 and under is for mix.I'm spraying the feilds with roundup before I plow.If needed I can cut and bail 5 acres at a time,or ten acres.Just depends on how the weathers acting.Is there a way to learn the correct moisture content for this stuff before you bail?Any rule of thumbs or charts?

 

[kensfarm]

"I'm spraying the feilds with roundup before I plow"

Usually the farmers plow.. disk.. & rake/drag.. to prep the field bed.. then plant the alfalfa.. then later they use some specific type of weed spray when needed.

I don't think spraying the fields w/ roundup will have any benefit at all before plowing.. I've only seen the farmers spray the fields w/ roundup if they are going to planting no-till.. and they don't plow at all then.

I thought I read something about a new "roundup ready" alfalfa..

 

[cowboydoc]

Ken is right. All that roundup does is kill the plants that are there. You won't get any controlled growth. And if you use something that does you will kill the alfalfa as well.

If it's been farmed for years I would say you have no chance of planting alfalfa this next year. I can't see how your ph would be even close to being right.

I also agree with rambler that you probably need a reality check. Making quality hay is extremely difficult. You need to know exactly when to cut it, exactly when to rake, exactly when to bale. It is all science and if you have no real world experience in it I believe you are in for a rude awakening. Most of the timing on good hay is not something that you can learn in a book or over the internet. You have to have someone knowledgeable educate you on the job.

Also when you do plant it's very difficult to get alfalfa planted just right. It's very tempermental about the depth that it's planted. You need a very good drill to get it just right. And also buy the best seed that there is. Don't scrimp on the seed price.

I'm not trying to talk you out of doing it. I just don't think you realize how hard it is to make good hay. The first step is the soil. It can take a year, two, or longer to bring your soil up to the proper level. And then we haven't even begun to talk about keeping an alfalfa field going.

 

[plumboy]

Well I've got to start somewhere and if need'be I'll let failure be my teacher.One of my thoughts was to give the feild time to germinate all the seeds that you might burry disc & plowing then zap them.And then before fall I'll do it agian if needed.I live around some good old farmers but they arent precision oriented and would not go through this much trouble to plant alfalfa.So its hard to get the exact steps needed.I'll post the results of my soil samples when I get them.I'm expecting to have either alfalfa square haylage bails or bricks of alfalfa dust the first year of cutting but I dont want to ruin the stand.Thanks for your replies.How many acres do you guys have of alfalfa?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I am just starting to get into baling as well but I am lucky to be taken over my future wifes family farm and her father will show me what I need to know. Plus she knows a lot about haying as well from growing up on the farm. So all I need to do is buy a baler and a drill and run the soil samples. Right now they are still running a dairy there and in a couple years when I take over the farm they are cutting back to raising heifers. They have spread manure on the fields for ages but weeds are overtaken the fields now as they can't maintain the farm like they wanted to anymore. Cowboydoc is right though, I grew up around farms as both my grand parents had farms and baled hay so I talk to them a lot and learn from them. I also have a trusted friend at my NH dealer who will look over any equipment for me to make sure I don't buy a piece of junk. Make sure you have people around you that you can talk to and get advice before you sink a lot of money into this venture. If I didn't have the people around me that can and will help, I wouldn't even think about this market. The farm I will be working is 150 acres. I will start out working up the smallest field which is 20 acres and the next year start on the rest of the smaller fields till I know what I am doing will work. Then I will plant the 61 acre field just to be sure what I do will work before I sink a bunch of money into seeding that field. Good luck and have fun.

 

[cowboydoc]

If you fail raising hay, esp. alfalfa, it's pretty expensive. I don't know about Kentucky but it costs us about $200/acre in seed, fertilizer, lime, etc. just to put in alfalfa not even counting time and machinery costs. My family does about 10,000 acres a year in hay. I do about 2000 myself now.

 

[kensfarm]

I would say.. before you let failure be your teacher.. learn from those out there that are doing it successfully.. there are publications from universities that talk about the latest & greatest.. there are forums & farming publications on the internet w/ farmers sharing their experience.. farm magazines.. your farm service representives.. etc.

I think you've already started.. just use the information that is out there to give yourself the best start possible.. and avoid mistakes that are already known.. to save your time, energy, & $.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Woodbeef posted a bunch of links that will help on this same topic on Ag Machinery. Here is the link to that thread. (hope it works)

Ag Machinery

 

[rambler]

Here is also a link to some good advise for beginers, the FAQ on haying. (As well as pastures, & predator control.)

http://www.sheepscreek.com/rural/haying.html

They make hay moisture testers. Sure thing.

If you are going for top dollar and no spoiled bales (heh heh), probably need a baler with acid preservitive.

Here in my part of southern MN, no one uses lime - we have lots of limestone quarries & rocks & such all around.... But it very much needed in other parts.

A field of alfalfa lasts 30-35 cuttings at the most, (yes to all - I know there are 25 year old fields out there - but he wants top-dollar pure alfalfa....) and the ground needs 3 months to a year of rest between killing off the old & planting new seed, so you should plan a rotation where you are replanting a patch of hay every 5 years or so, plus 1 patch is growing something else.


Don't you all kind of feel sorry for someone who has never seen alfalfa sell for less than $3.50 a bale & wants to get into the business? Gonna be rough..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

--->Paul

 

[cowboydoc]

Don't you all kind of feel sorry for someone who has never seen alfalfa sell for less than $3.50 a bale & wants to get into the business? Gonna be rough.....


You must be a mind reader Paul. I was thinking the exact same thing. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[poorboy]

Plumboy, I'm here in the eastern part of the state. Boy I hope next year is better than this year. I didn't cut the first blade until the middle of June this year. The 22nd as a matter of fact. This was orchard grass and fescue and had gone way too far. But this was truly unusual.

Your well drained soil is great for that crop. You said that it has been farmed for several years. What in? If in tobacco you may not be in that bad of shape. Most of the tobacco growers I know usually keep the ph in at least a neutral range. The clover was just going back on the reclaimed tobacco fields here until I limed this year. Funny thing about the bluegrass region is that you guys have problems setting posts because of the limestone but have to spread it because of the ph of the topsoil.

Four to five dollars a bale is easy to get for low quality alfalfa hay here if you can keep the mold down. So many people in Kentucky think they have to have a horse.

But I think the fad is dying down around here because the prices are beginning to drop on the horses. Also the tobacco program is on life support and the farmers are converting the fallow fields to alfalfa. So I would look for prices to drop a little because of the larger supply. At least on the lower quality stuff.

Our climate makes for good growing but for some sorry harvesting. Most of the first cutting is made into baleage. And you have to be able to cut it and bale it when it is ready which can go from ready to too late in one week. And the weather window may not cooperate, hot and humid really stinks when dealing with clover and I imagine the same is true with alfalfa.

I would do it if I wasn't trying to take my cows trough the winter on just hay. Grass is so much easier to deal with and most years more predictable. I just don't have the time to deal with the squares. I also usually have enough trouble getting enough help with a 1000 squares I put up for myself and friends for sick or weaning stock. Any luck and the right advice you should do well. But it is a lot of work , it does take up any spare time and makes any vacation plans null and void. My last summer vation was seven years ago and my wife and I are both off work during the summers.

Patrick

 

[plumboy]

Guys thanks for the links and all info.Maybe I should have started off by saying this is not my day job.I would gladly give it away if it only brought a buck fifty.That being said I can respect the kind words of discouragement and gladly accept it from those that have been through it.The links are great.Poorboy my farm is in tollesborro,I'm from lexington and that is where this alfalfa will be unloaded.I sure hope we dont have another spring like last year either.The feild where in corn and soy and timothy/orchard for the last two years.I should have access to mexican labor during the summer as my neighbors put them up and I have gotten to use them between tobacco jobs.There is also a hay program here but I opted to use my money instead of the govt,its basically trying to help these tobacco farmers out.Patrick what county you in,if you dont mind me asking?

Mark.

 

[F350Lawman]

Here in NY I paid $5 a bale for nice alfalfa from a local dairy famer. He doesn't sell alfalfa, but since I help him out , I can get some whenever I need.

People with horses are more than willing to pay the $5 or more a bale here. There just aren't that many people selling pure alfalfa bales. My wife only feeds a little alfalfa and it's much easier to measure how much you're feeding with the straight alfalfa as opposed to the mix. Even though we have quite a few horses around here but I imagine the demand would be much higher near you.

This year the weather stunk with all the rain but even so the afalfa was MUCH better than the other hay around here.

Good luck, I am sure some of the local farmers will be more than happy to give you a little guidance on when to plant and cut. Or you could always just drive around and use the "monkey see, monkey do approach" and cut when they cut /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[poorboy]

Plumboy, I'm from Magoffin. Were right next to Morgan.

Patrick

 

[DAP]

F350 .. I too live in Orange, and have a couple of mares. I think, not unlike machinery for instance, that the price of hay or alfalfa is generally quite high in our immediate area compared to other regions. Most people I know that purchase hays and/or alfalfa for their horses rarely buy locally because of the high prices and the lack of competetive feed/farm services. With the building boom of the last 3 years in our area, we have moved much closer to a suburban region, and are losing our subrural/rural ness more and more. This alone has impacted our prices, from tack to feeds to machinery to vet services, etc.

We pay 3.25 for 60 squares of good timothy hay and 4.00 for a bag of Hancock wood shavings. A lot of people buy hay from north of Albany to get a decent price.

We NEVER give our horses alfalfa as they are not working animals anymore. A neighbor of mine has a thoroughbreed hunter/jumper, retired for many years, but still subsists on pure alfalfa and 6 quarts of sweet feed - rarely ever leaves his stall. Thank god his stall is iron and cinderblock! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[TresCrows]

There is an old feller down the road from me with a small Alfalfa farm. It is the neatest and cleanest little farm around. He cuts the stuff several times during the growing season. I see him out now repairing ares he will soon replant. He told me you can plant in any month with an "R" in it. I have been told that many times by old timers. I notice he plants his alfalfa in the spring and fall--reseeding. When I see him planting I usually go do the same thing. He is kinda my weather vane. When he cuts, I cut, when he seeds, I seed, when he fertilizes so do I. He has applied gypsum etc for PH. His PH is different on his field which has culitvated the alfalfa for years vs my patch that was used for wheat. I think it will take a while to get your place up and running but what else do you have to do? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif J