Hello everyone, I'm in the process of building a new home out on 20 acres. Part of my property has railroad tracks that cut across it. We enjoy watching the trains go by usually twice a day. I'm going to have a long driveway from the road up to the house. My wife and I decided it would be nice to use some old railroad ties around the property. One idea is to a build fence up the driveway. Another idea is use them to build some sort of cool entrance out by the road. Anybody use them around their property? Do you have any pics or suggestions? Thanks!
Railroad Tie Ideas
- Thread starter El Wood
- Start date
- Views: 9338
AchingBack
Veteran Member
There are much better products to consider. Railroad ties are very difficult to work with, and creosote is a toxic material. I built a large retaining wall with landscape timbers which are lighter, and not real hard on equipment.
What Are the Dangers of Treated Railroad Ties? | eHow.com
What Are the Dangers of Treated Railroad Ties? | eHow.com
pjbci
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2012
- Messages
- 780
- Location
- Summit. Ms
- Tractor
- JD 4840, Deere 5075e, 450j, Cat D4k2, Kobelco 160, Volvo EC140el, deere 310, komatsu D31px22, IH 1486, MF 135, MHF TO35
I have a couple of raised bed gardens made with railroad ties. I like the looks of em. I have tried to load you a pic but no luck.
Other Illinois
New member
I loved RR ties too. Do not grow vegetables in a raised bed of RR ties. They are toxic.
Gary Fowler
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 11,917
- Location
- Bismarck Arkansas
- Tractor
- 2009 Kubota RTV 900, 2009 Kubota B26 TLB & 2010 model LS P7010
Exactly where did you folks get the toxic idea, been to California lately or something. Creosote and its active ingredients have been used for centuries for medicinal purposes. IT is still used today in cough syrup expectorants. The latest study done in 2005 with creosote plant workers determined that they exhibited no more dangers from cancer or other diseases than any one not associated with the material.
Yes it will blister you if you get the fresh material on you and not removed. By repeatedly dosing a rat daily for weeks in the same spot it produced lesions which is where the "holy crap lets ban that product police" got their info from. There is absolutely no reason to fear contamination of vegetables from creosote as it is almost completely insoluable in water (it is afterall a TAR which is solid at room temps) as compared to the chemicals used to treat lumber to prevent rot which are water soluable as that is what they are mixed with to inject into the lumber. Anything that is water soluable will leach from the product that it is on. Used crosss ties have most of the surface creosote worn off from years of weathering so there is not much chance of even getting any blistering on you skin from handling them without gloves but good leather gloves might help keep the black soot off and keep splinters out of your hands.
Some of you guys need to do a little more thorough research before you make statements as fact, based on hearsay from some other poster who did the same thing. If creosote was so toxic I am sure the FDA would have banned it long ago from Liquid Smoke for meat, cough syrup and even some disinfectants use creosote as an ingredient.
Yes it will blister you if you get the fresh material on you and not removed. By repeatedly dosing a rat daily for weeks in the same spot it produced lesions which is where the "holy crap lets ban that product police" got their info from. There is absolutely no reason to fear contamination of vegetables from creosote as it is almost completely insoluable in water (it is afterall a TAR which is solid at room temps) as compared to the chemicals used to treat lumber to prevent rot which are water soluable as that is what they are mixed with to inject into the lumber. Anything that is water soluable will leach from the product that it is on. Used crosss ties have most of the surface creosote worn off from years of weathering so there is not much chance of even getting any blistering on you skin from handling them without gloves but good leather gloves might help keep the black soot off and keep splinters out of your hands.
Some of you guys need to do a little more thorough research before you make statements as fact, based on hearsay from some other poster who did the same thing. If creosote was so toxic I am sure the FDA would have banned it long ago from Liquid Smoke for meat, cough syrup and even some disinfectants use creosote as an ingredient.
Two kinds of creosote:
Creosote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The two main types in industrial production are wood-tar creosote and coal-tar creosote the coal-tar variety, having stronger and more toxic properties, has chiefly been used as a preservative for wood; while the wood-tar variety has been used for meat preservation, wood treatment, and for medicinal purposes as an expectorant, anti-septic, astringent, anaesthetic and laxative, though these have mostly been replaced by newer medicines."
...
Coal-tar creosote is the most widely used wood treatment today;
... Its commonly used to preserve and waterproof cross ties,
Creosote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The two main types in industrial production are wood-tar creosote and coal-tar creosote the coal-tar variety, having stronger and more toxic properties, has chiefly been used as a preservative for wood; while the wood-tar variety has been used for meat preservation, wood treatment, and for medicinal purposes as an expectorant, anti-septic, astringent, anaesthetic and laxative, though these have mostly been replaced by newer medicines."
...
Coal-tar creosote is the most widely used wood treatment today;
... Its commonly used to preserve and waterproof cross ties,
Cat_Driver
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2008
- Messages
- 2,359
- Location
- Coachella Ca.
- Tractor
- 2016 Kubota 4060, 2017 Tackeuchi excavator TB260
I would either sell or trade the railroad ties and get the material you really want for a nice fence.
Gary Fowler
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 11,917
- Location
- Bismarck Arkansas
- Tractor
- 2009 Kubota RTV 900, 2009 Kubota B26 TLB & 2010 model LS P7010
Copy of text from the Wikipedia site link posted
[edit] Health effectsAccording to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), eating food or drinking water contaminated with high levels of coal tar creosote may cause a burning in the mouth and throat, and stomach pains. ATSDR also states that brief direct contact with large amounts of coal tar creosote may result in a rash or severe irritation of the skin, chemical burns of the surfaces of the eyes, convulsions and mental confusion, kidney or liver problems, unconsciousness, and even death. Longer direct skin contact with low levels of creosote mixtures or their vapors can result in increased light sensitivity, damage to the cornea, and skin damage. Longer exposure to creosote vapors can cause irritation of the respiratory tract.
The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has determined that coal tar creosote is probably carcinogenic to humans, based on adequate animal evidence and limited human evidence. It is instructive to note that the animal testing relied upon by IARC involved the continuous application of creosote to the shaved skin of rodents. After weeks of creosote application, the animals developed cancerous skin lesions and in one test, lesions of the lung. The United States Environmental Protection Agency has stated that coal tar creosote is a probable human carcinogen based on both human and animal studies.[71] As such, the Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set a permissible exposure limit of 0.2 milligrams of coal tar creosote per cubic meter of air (0.2 mg/m3) in the workplace during an 8-hour day, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires that spills or accidental releases into the environment of one pound (0.454 kg) or more of creosote be reported to them.[72]
There is no unique exposure pathway of children to creosote. Children exposed to creosote will probably experience the same health effects seen in adults exposed to creosote. It is unknown whether children differ from adults in their susceptibility to health effects from creosote.
A 2005 mortality study of creosote workers found no evidence supporting an increased risk of cancer death, as a result of exposure to creosote. Based on the findings of the largest mortality study to date of workers employed in creosote wood treating plants, there is no evidence that employment at creosote wood-treating plants or exposure to creosote-based preservatives was associated with any significant mortality increase from either site-specific cancers or non-malignant diseases. The study consisted of 2,179 employees at eleven plants in the United States where wood was treated with creosote preservatives. Some workers began work in the 1940s to 1950s. The observation period of the study covered 1979- 2001. The average length of employment was 12.5 years. One third of the study subjects were employed for over 15 years.[73]
The largest health effect of creosote is deaths caused by residential fires.[74]
You guys can use whatever you want that makes you feel safe. I personally would have no problem using cross ties to make a raised bed garden. If you are considering pressure treated lumber, look at the special handling requirements in the MSDS on it, to name a few, wear gloves when handling to avoid skin contact, wear eye and respirator protection when cutting to avoid inhalation of vapors in the sawdust. The stuff used is TOXIC but most people dont read or even think about it.
In my case, I used left over bricks for my raised flower bed and rocks removed from the construction of the foundation and dug from the yard to make the vegetable bed since they were available and free and looked pretty when finished.
Just remember that someone pays for research in most cases it is the gov. but sometime private funded and they are going to make their report to favor the opinion of the funding agency. If it is the EPA, they want to ban everything. Look at the parameters of the EPA testing in the Wiki link for making the poor rats get cancerous lesions, shave the skin and apply creosote everyday for weeks. Proper handling precautions are necessary for all products including water. Ever look up how many people have died from water poisoning and I dont mean contaminated water. TOO MUCH of anything including water will kill you. Use good practices in handling materials and you stand a beter than average chance of living a long and healthy life.
[edit] Health effectsAccording to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), eating food or drinking water contaminated with high levels of coal tar creosote may cause a burning in the mouth and throat, and stomach pains. ATSDR also states that brief direct contact with large amounts of coal tar creosote may result in a rash or severe irritation of the skin, chemical burns of the surfaces of the eyes, convulsions and mental confusion, kidney or liver problems, unconsciousness, and even death. Longer direct skin contact with low levels of creosote mixtures or their vapors can result in increased light sensitivity, damage to the cornea, and skin damage. Longer exposure to creosote vapors can cause irritation of the respiratory tract.
The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has determined that coal tar creosote is probably carcinogenic to humans, based on adequate animal evidence and limited human evidence. It is instructive to note that the animal testing relied upon by IARC involved the continuous application of creosote to the shaved skin of rodents. After weeks of creosote application, the animals developed cancerous skin lesions and in one test, lesions of the lung. The United States Environmental Protection Agency has stated that coal tar creosote is a probable human carcinogen based on both human and animal studies.[71] As such, the Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set a permissible exposure limit of 0.2 milligrams of coal tar creosote per cubic meter of air (0.2 mg/m3) in the workplace during an 8-hour day, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires that spills or accidental releases into the environment of one pound (0.454 kg) or more of creosote be reported to them.[72]
There is no unique exposure pathway of children to creosote. Children exposed to creosote will probably experience the same health effects seen in adults exposed to creosote. It is unknown whether children differ from adults in their susceptibility to health effects from creosote.
A 2005 mortality study of creosote workers found no evidence supporting an increased risk of cancer death, as a result of exposure to creosote. Based on the findings of the largest mortality study to date of workers employed in creosote wood treating plants, there is no evidence that employment at creosote wood-treating plants or exposure to creosote-based preservatives was associated with any significant mortality increase from either site-specific cancers or non-malignant diseases. The study consisted of 2,179 employees at eleven plants in the United States where wood was treated with creosote preservatives. Some workers began work in the 1940s to 1950s. The observation period of the study covered 1979- 2001. The average length of employment was 12.5 years. One third of the study subjects were employed for over 15 years.[73]
The largest health effect of creosote is deaths caused by residential fires.[74]
You guys can use whatever you want that makes you feel safe. I personally would have no problem using cross ties to make a raised bed garden. If you are considering pressure treated lumber, look at the special handling requirements in the MSDS on it, to name a few, wear gloves when handling to avoid skin contact, wear eye and respirator protection when cutting to avoid inhalation of vapors in the sawdust. The stuff used is TOXIC but most people dont read or even think about it.
In my case, I used left over bricks for my raised flower bed and rocks removed from the construction of the foundation and dug from the yard to make the vegetable bed since they were available and free and looked pretty when finished.
Just remember that someone pays for research in most cases it is the gov. but sometime private funded and they are going to make their report to favor the opinion of the funding agency. If it is the EPA, they want to ban everything. Look at the parameters of the EPA testing in the Wiki link for making the poor rats get cancerous lesions, shave the skin and apply creosote everyday for weeks. Proper handling precautions are necessary for all products including water. Ever look up how many people have died from water poisoning and I dont mean contaminated water. TOO MUCH of anything including water will kill you. Use good practices in handling materials and you stand a beter than average chance of living a long and healthy life.
I should have mentioned this before... I know using other materials for the fence might be easier but my wife wants to use them to create sort of a train"theme" on our property. I'm even considering designing my pole barn to resemble an old train depot and building it near the tracks. So keep the ideas coming....
Other Illinois
New member
To be more thorough in discussing the raised bed materials, this is my thought process. You are what you eat, drink and think. Because life becomes more complicated every year, I try to keep things simple. Plain wood; lumber,cord wood, saplings or split logs is available, safe and not to expensive. I too have beds built out of used brick and the locally quarried limestone that was the basement of my grandparents old house. Have used slabs from the saw mill also.
As to railroad design themes. I have an old model railroad sitting on a beam in the loft. I have seen a similar arrangemet where a working train set ran along a set of shelves along a wall. It went throught a hole in the wall, into the next room, and back again to complete a circuit. A farmer north of town has a caboose for an office. You will want ties and rails for that. Also an X shaped railroad crossing sign along your lane would be cute. Don't put the sign in sight of a pubic road though. That would be a no no. Start collecting lanterns to. If you look into model railroad gardening, that is a complete hobby in itself. I have a train painted on my mailbox. I use the spikes for coat hooks on the wall. Whoo-whooo... ps. Use ties either horizontally or in staggered heights vertically for landscape acents. A single tie can make a lantern post or to hang a hanging basket of flowers. Just use your imagination.
As to railroad design themes. I have an old model railroad sitting on a beam in the loft. I have seen a similar arrangemet where a working train set ran along a set of shelves along a wall. It went throught a hole in the wall, into the next room, and back again to complete a circuit. A farmer north of town has a caboose for an office. You will want ties and rails for that. Also an X shaped railroad crossing sign along your lane would be cute. Don't put the sign in sight of a pubic road though. That would be a no no. Start collecting lanterns to. If you look into model railroad gardening, that is a complete hobby in itself. I have a train painted on my mailbox. I use the spikes for coat hooks on the wall. Whoo-whooo... ps. Use ties either horizontally or in staggered heights vertically for landscape acents. A single tie can make a lantern post or to hang a hanging basket of flowers. Just use your imagination.