Rebuilding a smaller cultivator--need some help

[srjones]

I got these parts today, as they were going to be scrapped and I just couldn't let that happen.

From reading the various posts about "cultivators" I've noticed that there as many different types of cultivators as there are spoken languages in Europe. Given that, I probably don't have the right name for this thing (or what this thing was) but I would describe it as a "spring shank feild cultivator"

So I ask you, fair and wise TBNer's, please educate me on what this is and perhaps make some suggestions to help me turn it into a much smaller configuration.

My questions:

1. Does anyone have a link or picture of what this thing might have looked in its pre-scrap condition?

2. I counted 7 shanks and I know that's waaaay to much for my 20 horse CUT. Any recommendations of how many I might reasonably expect to pull? And spacing between?

3. Should put them in a straight formation or a V formation?

4. There are two 'sod cutter disk wheel thingys' (no, I don't know what they're called) Where do they go? I can see how they'd be perfect for slicing through sod, but maybe it has a completly different purpose.

5. What are the advantages and limitations of using springs like this?

6. Since I might be able to make two (or three) separate cultivators out of this are any suggestions of special purpose cultivators I might consider? Right now, I'm thinking of a standard garden/crop cultivator and also a specialized tool for cutting and dressing shallow ditches.

Thanks in advance,

-Steve

 

[RonR]

Can't help with the id, but the paint looks to be Case or IH or ???????? --probably a lot of possibilities here.

Depending on your soil conditions, I'd plan for five shanks. You can always remove two of them if you have to dig deep.

The disks are called rolling coulters. They help to cut the ground in front of the shanks.

If I were doing it, I'd put two shanks in front (in the rear tire tracks) and three on a rear row. That way, you could cultivate plants by removing a few shanks. You can build it in and "H" configuration. You could make it a "V" shape as well.

I had a five shank spring cultivator on a JD M (maybe 20HP) and it worked great to work our soil (good topsoil) a couple of times. We'd wait a week and work it twice more and it would be ready to plant.

Have fun!
Ron

 

[Nat]

They look to be a set of cultivators off an old B Allis Chalmbers. If you are talking about a 3PH cultivator, makr a frame out of 3X3X3/8 angle that is set at a 45 degree angle, or a V with the narrow part toward the tractor and use 6 shanks. The front 2 should be about 14-16 inches apart and step back about 12 " and mount the second pair of shanks, then step back about 12" and mount the 3rd set.. I don't know how to make a drawing, but remember that the same angle as you used for the frame, if welded vertically will make the 45 degre angle . sorry , I can't explain on paper what I'm talking about, but someone on here will do it better than me. Later, Nat

 

[Wesdor]

I agree with Nat, those look like old Allis Chalmer parts. I grew up using them.

The other advice seems to be correct from my viewpoint. Good luck on your project.

 

[srjones]

Thanks for the inputm guys. I think I'm going with a modified V formation or an "M" formation similar to what RonR suggested. (see the pix and drawing).

For some follow up questions (remember, I really don't know how these things work):

1. When in operating position, should the shaft be plumb or slightly forward or back?
2. If my primary purpose is ground preparation would it be a good idea to follow with a disc?
3. Some of the V heads have broken..partially and completely. Are these common parts that my Ag supplier would be able to match or is there a good source for Allis Chalmer replacement parts?

Thanks again,

-Steve

 

[RonR]

srjones,

Not sure what your bar material will be, but keep in mind that a shank on the end that catches a root or something will see a lot of stress. The spring system might help, but you don't want something bending/breaking.

For your questions:

1. If you build it so the sweeps (the digging parts) are pointed a little downward, it will help the unit penetrate the ground and stay in the ground.

2. Depends a lot on your ground. When I had mine in good topsoil, I could run it through grass & weed covered ground twice. More than that and I would hang up trash. Then wait a week or so, and a coupla rains, and hit it again. By the third time, it was clean topsoil and ready to plant.

You could attach a drag on the rear for final prep if you wanted to.

3. The sweeps should be availalbe at any farm supply store. Take one off and measure the space between the bolt holes for a match. Cheaper still, find a local farmer that has replaced them on his big machine and pick up 5-10 for your machine.

Might pick up some new bolts too as the old heads might be worn. One trick we did cuz we was poor: as our chisel points wore down and we flipped them to use the other point, rather than replace the bolts, we'd install the bolt, snug it, then weld the head to the chisel point, before tighting the nut. When the 2nd point wore out, we'd put on new teeth and bolts.

Hope this helps.
ron

 

[srjones]

Thanks RonR,

The bar material is the same stuff from the donor cultivator which would have been pulled by a much larger tracter, so I think I'll be ok.

I'll be sure to post pix when I get something completed.

-Steve

 

[Nat]

Steve, in the configuration you show, it will be more of a tillage tool than a cultivator. The center shank will plow up anything you have planted, but maybe I'm missing what you want it for. The shanks should be vertical not tipped foward, the angle of the points will penetrate. For a cultivator configuration , you need 2 shanks on either side of the planted row to remove any growth that starts there. Then farther back you need 2 shanks to loosen up the middle of the rows, then 2 at the read to loosen up and take out the tractor tracks. That is what I and I guess most folks think of when talking about a cultivator.
Now if you are talking about a tillage tool to tear up the ground before planting what you have drawn up will work fine.
The bar you have from the doner is made to be more in tension that as a cross bar support. For a cultivator, I would think it would be more than suficient, but I wouldn't think it would be strong enough for a tillage tool. We had a 5 shank Ford tillage tool when I was a lad at home and it would stop out 2000 Ford deisel in it's tracks, but the same tractor would pull our 2 row 10 shank cultivator with ease.
I'm not argueing with you or you plan, but I also don't want you to go to a lot of work doing something that may not do what you want done. I HTH some, later, Nat

 

[srjones]

Steve, in the configuration you show, it will be more of a tillage tool than a cultivator. The center shank will plow up anything you have planted, but maybe I'm missing what you want it for. The shanks should be vertical not tipped foward, the angle of the points will penetrate. For a cultivator configuration , you need 2 shanks on either side of the planted row to remove any growth that starts there. Then farther back you need 2 shanks to loosen up the middle of the rows, then 2 at the read to loosen up and take out the tractor tracks. That is what I and I guess most folks think of when talking about a cultivator.
Now if you are talking about a tillage tool to tear up the ground before planting what you have drawn up will work fine.
The bar you have from the doner is made to be more in tension that as a cross bar support. For a cultivator, I would think it would be more than suficient, but I wouldn't think it would be strong enough for a tillage tool. We had a 5 shank Ford tillage tool when I was a lad at home and it would stop out 2000 Ford deisel in it's tracks, but the same tractor would pull our 2 row 10 shank cultivator with ease.
I'm not argueing with you or you plan, but I also don't want you to go to a lot of work doing something that may not do what you want done. I HTH some, later, Nat

Hi Nat, yeah that helps. You got me thinking about the engineering and how I'd be using it, compared to how it was first made. And you're right, as a cultivater, the round bars were attached to a central square or diamond bar, and they were swept back at about a 45 degree angle.

So, I had a thought about reinforcing the bar. What if I put a length of 1/4" rebar on the bar, and then filled it with Acrylic concrete patch. It would add strength and weight, right?

Yep, my primary purpose is for a tillage tool and think the flexablity of this setup is that with a few turns of of a wrench I can engage/disengage/adjust one or all of the points. So, as a tillage tool in good worked soil, engage all 5 points. For tilling harder soil, engage only the two in the front, or that and the one centered in the back. As a single row cultivator, only engage two outside on the rear (behind the tires).

Thanks for keeping me thinking about the right things.