replacing JD 420 loader hoses

[arkvet]

I'm attempting to replace all the short hoses on my JD 420 loader. Last week I busted a cylinder rod and I ordered some aftermarket bucket cylinders from surplus center. They come with SAE 8 (1/2"?) female fittings which I understand is fairly standard for a lot of cylinders. Anyway, since I am having to buy adapters for the new cylinders (I'm replacing both bucket cylinders) I thought it would be wise to go ahead and replace all the hoses while I'm at it. I had one blow a couple years ago and I'm honestly shocked no more have blown. They are badly worn and cracked.

Before I can get the 4 needed adapters for the SAE 8 ports on the new cylinders I need to identify the current hoses and connectors to keep everything as close to OEM as possible. All the short hoses are 12" or slightly shorter in length so I was planning on just getting the pre-made hoses that are 12" in length.

First off the actual hose is 5/8" OD but I can't find the basic information explaining if sizes are listed as od or id?

There are a total of 8 12" hoses needed. 4 of the 16 fittings will need to be straight as the replacement cylinder's SAE8 fittings are in line with the hose direction. The other 12 will just be replacements for the OEM cylinder fittings. These are 90 degree swivel connections. The best I can tell the OEM fittings are SAE J5143 O-ring face seal (OFS). There is a -06 that is barely legible on a few fittings and that fits with the chart measurements I took with calipers. I also understand the -06 refers to 6/16 which = 3/8" fitting. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So my basic questions are 1- what size hydraulic hose do I have / need?

2- what basic ends should I get with the pre-made ends? NPT male or JIC female?

3- what adapters will I need to connect the hoses (answer to #2) to the existing OFS 3/8 (-06) cylinder fittings.

4- For the 4 connections to the SAE8 cylinder ports would I be better off to insert an SAE8 to OFS 3/8 male adapter first??? this way it would match the other OEM cylinders. Or could just bypass this step and go straight from hose to SAE8???

I apologize for any confusion. I tried to educate myself as much as possible before asking these questions. I could probably figure this out on my own and get it "good enough" but figured asking on here was a safer option.

Thanks!

 

[arkvet]

After more reading it looks like JIC is the better way to go. I've found JIC pre-made hoses on surplus center. Looks like they are pre-made with straight swivel heads. This would allow me to go straight from the hose to an SAE8M / JIC6 or 8 adapter. Can anyone tell me what ID my hose is if the OD is ~7/8" The 3/8" hose can come with 6F JIC ends and the 1/2" hose can come with 8F JIC ends (smallest).

 

[Zebrafive]

You are correct 06 = 6/16 = 3/8
1- Use 3/8" hose. You may find it marked on one of the hoses some where. Hose is marked in intervals.
2- If your current hoses have size 06 ORFS fittings buy the same. If you plan to buy ready made hoses and your only choice is NPT or JIC, get JIC in size 06. It's superior to NPT. But then you will need male JIC to female ORFS adapters. Might be cheaper to just buy custom made hoses with the proper fittings.
3- Adapter for JIC hose (female swivels) to male ORFS fittings on your cylinders/hardlines, you need 06 male JIC to 06 female swivel ORFS adapters. Discount Hydraulic Hose has them. FS6504-06-06
4- Depends..........If you want to be able to use OEM hoses, get male 08 SAE (ORB) to 06 male ORFS adapters. If you are set on getting genric hoses with JIC female swivels, get 08 male SAE (ORB) to 06 male JIC. This will eliminate one adapter.

I would stay with ORFS it's superior to JIC, JIC is superior to NPT . It may cost a little more, but use less adapters and keep it simpler. Less adapters = less chance for leaks.

 

[Zebrafive]

If you decide to go with premade hoses with female JIC swivels, you might want to change out the adapters on your cylinders to JIC from your current ORFS vs adding another adapter to the mix. Hardlines will still need adapters if they are ORFS.

I would still stay with ORFS, it's the next step up from JIC.

 

[arkvet]

Thank you VERY much for the advice. All makes perfect sense! I would (and may) have the hoses made locally but the last time I had one of these blow it was around $50 to have it custom made. 8 hoses would run me around $400 and I think that's kinda steep when I can probably make my own for less than $100.

One thing I forgot to mention (because I figured I could sort that part out) was that the JIC 6M to to ORFS 6F adapters need to be a 90 elbow the way my lines run. This creates a bit of a problem as I can't find such a thing. I'm going to keep looking. Maybe there are pre-made lines with a JIC 6F that comes off 90 from the hose? I'll keep looking.

Again, Thanks!

 

[Zebrafive]

Thank you VERY much for the advice. All makes perfect sense! I would (and may) have the hoses made locally but the last time I had one of these blow it was around $50 to have it custom made. 8 hoses would run me around $400 and I think that's kinda steep when I can probably make my own for less than $100.

One thing I forgot to mention (because I figured I could sort that part out) was that the JIC 6M to to ORFS 6F adapters need to be a 90 elbow the way my lines run. This creates a bit of a problem as I can't find such a thing. I'm going to keep looking. Maybe there are pre-made lines with a JIC 6F that comes off 90 from the hose? I'll keep looking.

Again, Thanks!

Never seen these on 90* either. You would have to add either a ORFS 90* or JIC 90*.

Might check Discount Hydraulic Hose for their price on custom made hoses. You could eliminate adapters and get any ends you want.

 

[arkvet]

Looks like Discount Hydraulic Hose will build the hoses for $10 each if I buy the parts. Each 90* ORFS 6F is $7.50. The hose will run a couple bucks for the 12" piece. So I can probably have them built for $27-$30 which isn't bad at all. I ran into a friend last night that told me O'Reilly auto parts makes custom hose assemblies here in town. He said they were a lot more affordable than the Farm Parts store I've used previously. I'm going to check them out at lunch today and see what I can find. If they can make me one for around $30 or so I'll just get it done.

Thanks for the help!!! Even if I just end up buying the hoses built this thread has been extremely educational!!!

 

[arkvet]

I went ahead and had the hoses made locally at the farm parts store. Probably not the cheapest way to get it done but it's done right. After studying the hose paths pretty closely it appeared to me that the length was pretty critical with the path they take. Too long and they wouldn't be able to keep a straight path as the arch would push them into each other. I had the shop cut the hoses to the length that I felt they'd need to be considering the measurements I took. They let me take them home and "dry fit" them before making the crimps which would make for potential expensive mistakes. The guestimates were spot on so I took them back for crimping. I used SAE8 (1/2" O Ring Boss?) male to 3/8" JIC male adapters from the cylinders themselves then had a 3/8 JIC female on one hose end. The other end was OEM (3/8 ORFS 90*)

All in all the results are nice with the fewest possible junctions to potentially leak. ended up costing me about $40/ hose which isn't bad to get them done right.

Pic to come soon

 

[Zebrafive]

I went ahead and had the hoses made locally at the farm parts store. Probably not the cheapest way to get it done but it's done right. After studying the hose paths pretty closely it appeared to me that the length was pretty critical with the path they take. Too long and they wouldn't be able to keep a straight path as the arch would push them into each other. I had the shop cut the hoses to the length that I felt they'd need to be considering the measurements I took. They let me take them home and "dry fit" them before making the crimps which would make for potential expensive mistakes. The guestimates were spot on so I took them back for crimping. I used SAE8 (1/2" O Ring Boss?) male to 3/8" JIC male adapters from the cylinders themselves then had a 3/8 JIC female on one hose end. The other end was OEM (3/8 ORFS 90*)

All in all the results are nice with the fewest possible junctions to potentially leak. ended up costing me about $40/ hose which isn't bad to get them done right.

Pic to come soon

View attachment 323938

Any reason you did not use 08 SAE male to ORFS instead of JIC? Since you were having them made I would have used ORFS all the way.

 

[arkvet]

Any reason you did not use 08 SAE male to ORFS instead of JIC? Since you were having them made I would have used ORFS all the way.

Availability. They didn't have 4 sae 08M to orfs6M adapters. I went with what I thought was the best alternative in jic. I'm such a busy guy that getting it done was top priority.

Hooked up the loader this am and tried it out. Personally I can'. Tell any noticeable difference from original. Works perfect