Road Rage, revisited.

[bdhsfz6]

Pennsylvania has also been on a roundabout kick for the last few years. I can't say I'm fond of them but they do reduce fatalities at the expense of increasing the number of minor accidents. Traffic flow is improved until it gets heavy. Then the backups are worse than they were before the traffic lights were removed. This is especially true when there are a lot of tractor trailers on the road.

What I don't understand is, PA and NJ put the hate on traffic circles during the 1950's & 60's and removed most of them. It was mainly due to their inability to handle heavy traffic and the number of minor accidents. Now the highway engineers are bringing them back and calling them roundabouts. Does a name change make them ok now?

Traffic regulation is the problem. With traffic lights, timing can be varied to maximize traffic flow. This can't be done with roundabouts or traffic circles as they used to be called.

For example, in 2019, PENNDOT engineers responded to traffic flow complaints at a busy intersection near Scranton International Airport. At the time, there was one traffic light and a series of on / off ramps where merging was a problem.

Their solution was to install a series of three roundabouts:

It used to take me 45 minutes to get to the airport. Now it takes 60 to 75 minutes due to traffic flow through the roundabouts. Tractor trailers sometimes have to drive partway through the center to prevent accidents.

It seems to me, history is repeating itself. I guess these new traffic engineers are too young to remember the traffic circle nightmare of the mid 20th century.

 

[deezler]

Michigan is on a round about kick lately. Don't care for them at all. Think it's a way to save on traffic lights and signage if you want to know the truth.

And to keep traffic from backing up in known problematic intersections. They seem most effective in replacing 4 way stops on high-volume rural roads, where you would often see half-mile long backups approaching the 4 way stops during rush hour.

Washtenaw county road commission is definitely on a kick lately, couple new ones going in right now.

Considering that they have to re-align utilities, even re-work the road layouts approaching the roundabout, put in brand new storm drains, pour extensive concrete curbs, and then repave and sign everything..... I don't really think cost savings is part of the equation lol. They are expensive projects when previously all that was there was 4 measly stop signs.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Michigan is on a round about kick lately. Don't care for them at all. Think it's a way to save on traffic lights and signage if you want to know the truth.

I like them because you don't have to stop at intersections. Having to stop when you can see that there is no traffic is nonsense.

 

[cqaigy2]

I like em, but would find a big roundabout on I-5 a bit more exhilarating then i'd be comfortable with.

I think they have their place. We use traffic lights on onramps to moderate traffic flow onto the freeway.

 

[bcp]

Bruce

 

[Oaktree]

It used to take me 45 minutes to get to the airport. Now it takes 60 to 75 minutes due to traffic flow through the roundabouts. Tractor trailers sometimes have to drive partway through the center to prevent accidents.

It seems to me, history is repeating itself. I guess these new traffic engineers are too young to remember the traffic circle nightmare of the mid 20th century.

Every place that I've seen where they've been put in where they didn't exist before traffic flow has improved. I'm sure there are situations that are the opposite.
Agree that many of them are a bit too small for trailer trucks, not sure of the logic there.

And to keep traffic from backing up in known problematic intersections. They seem most effective in replacing 4 way stops on high-volume rural roads, where you would often see half-mile long backups approaching the 4 way stops during rush hour.

Especially when you get a timid driver at the intersection who won't pull out unless there's a half mile of clear road in both directions.

 

[LouNY]

View attachment 759556

Bruce

I sure wouldn't like a rotary the first time I can upon one, might get used to them after awhile but it looks like an invitation to a demolition derby to me.
We have some Roundabouts around here, they aren't too bad but there are a few with multiple lanes and they are ridiculous. The local ones have pavers in much of the center for long vehicles to use getting around. Also a few have signs directing vehicles with trailers to circle the roundabout before exiting as they will curb scrub hard otherwise.

 

[3Ts]

If anyone needs a dash camera, I highly recommend the Blue Sky Sea B1W: https://www.amazon.com/Blueskysea-B1W-Recorder-Rotatable-Recording/dp/B0773FXVKL
Fairly cheap, unobtrusive, good video (good enough to get a plate number in the daylight) has a capacitor instead of a battery so it holds up better in a hot car.
It does need a smartphone to program it, but I've had one in my car for several years now and one in the wife's car as well.
Just make sure to get a endurance SD card from a reputable manufacturer that is designed for constant writing with video.

I'll 2nd most of this. The camera is good and requires a link to a smartphone via bluetooth. However, the app has problems connecting with the dash camera frequently to the point that I've given up on it. How many times should I have to delete the app and re-download it and reset the camera? They have a B4W that has it's own display and does not require bluetooth although it has the capability for it.

 

[Buggs67]

I sure wouldn't like a rotary the first time I can upon one, might get used to them after awhile but it looks like an invitation to a demolition derby to me.
We have some Roundabouts around here, they aren't too bad but there are a few with multiple lanes and they are ridiculous. The local ones have pavers in much of the center for long vehicles to use getting around. Also a few have signs directing vehicles with trailers to circle the roundabout before exiting as they will curb scrub hard otherwise.

There are quite a few in the Bear Mountain - Seven Lakes area. I used to drive there frequently in the 70-80s and they ran smoothly. The one at the western end of the Bear Mountain bridge is quite large.

The state recently put one in here and it's too small. And the drivers are so used to having right of way on Route 34 that they often cut off other traffic. And it has become a bottle neck in rush hour. A traffic light would have worked much better ad been cheaper to install.

 

[mrmikey]

And the drivers are so used to having right of way on Route 34 that they often cut off other traffic.

That was a problem here as well, still is but not quite as bad.
What I found worse was people going the wrong way 'round. "But where I want to go is right there, why do I have to go all the way around" .
The ex drives like that, always did, couldn't t drive a sharp stick in a snowbank.

 

[Fragger]

Ambulance broad sided me... driver forgot lights and siren and plowed through intersection...

Another time during road construction 3 Lanes into one with no shoulder as it was excavated...

Poor driver in front of me had No Where to go as traffic blocked up ahead by loader.

The Ambulance was relentless yelling and screaming with siren and horn so driver went right and plunged into the 3 foot deep abyss and almost rolled.

Just be careful...

That there takes the cake how do you forget the lights/siren going to an emergency, HELLO??
Thats one of the reasons i loved emergency response, blow the horn lights and siren, duh!!

 

[Fragger]

That there takes the cake how do you forget the lights/siren going to an emergency, HELLO??
Thats one of the reasons i loved emergency response, blow the horn lights and siren, duh!!

Mostly it was a moral issue for me.

 

[Fragger]

One of my stupid guilty pleasures is watching car crash compilations on YouTube. A common scenario is merging conflicts, where two drivers are hellbent on not letting the other driver get in front, and they eventually run into each other. I find it ironic that they both would have gotten home earlier if one of them had yielded.

Here in Texas if you ask to be let in to traffic i will let you in,but if you try to force you way in then it's game on!! my wife hates that about me and i do too.
Turn the other cheek

 

[California]

The biggest advocates of this philosophy that I've dealt with were South Koreans, lol; they've got one big highway running up through the country, and the large trucks rule the road. Driving there certainly took some time to adapt to; thankfully, what I drove was always fairly large, but I had to learn to be aggressive.

One thing I observed visiting India was their use of the horn is completely different. I think it is a residual of the Brits who ruled there and knew there were no consequences for running over a local.

When a truck or but blasts their horn, it means move out of my way or die. Same as a railroad train here in the US.

Everyone moves!

 

[California]

As for zipper merge - CHP or somebody, maybe the radio traffic reporters, have brought an awareness that the highway can move more volume if the lane that will end is filled with cars that don't attempt to merge before the end, and then 'zip' smoothly and while moving, where the striped line ends. I first saw this work smoothly in Los Angeles and then more recently in Northern California, where traffic isn't as famously hectic as LA but there are a lot of construction projects causing merges. Acceptance and doing this well seems to be a new cultural norm.

 

[ponytug]

One thing I observed visiting India was their use of the horn is completely different. I think it is a residual of the Brits who ruled there and knew there were no consequences for running over a local.

When a truck or but blasts their horn, it means move out of my way or die. Same as a railroad train here in the US.

Everyone moves!

Except when it is another bus or truck...most of the time one of the drivers chickens out. "Most" being the operative word. We used to debate whether it was better to be in the front of the bus or the back of the bus or the roof; depending on the accident, one was a most favored location.

UK laws heavily penlize crimes against property, and much less so crimes against persons compared to the US. It is an interesting commentary on societal priorities.

All the best,

Peter

 

[California]

... We used to debate whether it was better to be in the front of the bus or the back of the bus or the roof; depending on the accident

I don't think you want the roof. In a one-day trip down to the Taj Mahal from New Delhi on the old 'expressway' with no-signal intersections, we came upon a bus upside down in the ditch and people wandering aimlessly. Must have just happened. And coming back, a dead motorcyclist. He wasn't quick enough crossing at one of those no-signal intersections. Our heavy traffic detoured there to run 60mph against oncoming heavy traffic on the wrong side of the center divider.

More recently I read that a proper freeway has superseded that principal expressway. Much safer. But a different problem appeared. Running at high speed on neglected tires was causing many blowouts and crashed cars.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I don't think you want the roof. In a one-day trip down to the Taj Mahal from New Delhi on the old 'expressway' with no-signal intersections, we came upon a bus upside down in the ditch and people wandering aimlessly. Must have just happened. And coming back, a dead motorcyclist. He wasn't quick enough crossing at one of those no-signal intersections. Our heavy traffic detoured there to run 60mph against oncoming heavy traffic on the wrong side of the center divider.

More recently I read that a proper freeway has superseded that principal expressway. Much safer. But a different problem appeared. Running at high speed on neglected tires was causing many blowouts and crashed cars.

They need more rotaries (traffic circles) over there. From the number popping up here in the US, the transportation engineers think they are going to solve all our traffic problems!

 

[JJT]

One thing I observed visiting India was their use of the horn is completely different. I think it is a residual of the Brits who ruled there and knew there were no consequences for running over a local.

When a truck or but blasts their horn, it means move out of my way or die. Same as a railroad train here in the US.

Everyone moves!

The rule of the road in India and most third world countries - "Might makes right", if the other vehicle is bigger than you, they have the right of way.... Many drivers seem to be suicidal.