Road Repairs - a few questions

[woodlandfarms]

I live at the end of a mile long single lane dirt road that winds its way along a ridge. We just bought the property (in july) and have found that no one is doing road maintenance. I may take it over, most of the people on the road pay in to a kitty. But, as I am new to this, what exactly is going to be entailed.

Let me be more specific. The road is full of 4 to 6" deep potholes, 12 to 35" wide... I have read articles on creating roads, but have seen very little on proper repair and maintenance. We get lots of rain (40 to 60") but generally only surface frost and little snow.

I don't think the road was ever created properly (crown / large rock, small rock base). I need to see if that is part of the plan of the neighbors (to get it done professionally).. If not, I will have to go with the flow.

So, my questions are this,

If the road is fine, do I do any "yearly" maintenance? Add More gravel? Smooth it with a landscape rake or do I use a box blade, plow it all up? Also, how long should I have to expect to work on a one mile road. I don't want to take this on if it is a long, intensive deal.

Ultimately, I am looking for personal experiences that I can draw on experience from to help with my decisions.

Carl

 

[JoeinTX]

Sounds like you've got some variables there with the neighbors which I can't really speak to. But, as for the road, the best is to get some caliche/crushed limestone down on it and a simple crown to begin with.

-a regular, angle blade is best for road work of this type but if a box blade is all you have then you can make it work.
-the potholes can be worked out with grading.
-with that much rain, you may need to look at creating some diversion humps and ditches to channel the water off of the road surface.

Money being no object and time a luxury, taking your box blade or a disc and loosening up the current roadway and following on with a good packing before bringing in the gravel and building a nice, clean crown would be ideal. But it doesn't sould like an option right now.

As for routine maintenance, it sounds like that will depend on the "kitty" available to you for fuel, etc. A decent road probably won't need attention more than a couple of times a year. A bad one could need a monthly going-over. This is also subjective depending on the traffic you have........if the local idiots like to use it as a place to go 4-wheeling messing it up or if there is a sudden surge of heavy truck traffic and so on.

 

[EddieWalker]

At a mile in length, it's gonna take allot of material.

Rule number one for any road is drainage. You need to figure out where the water is going and make sure it's not crossing the road. The crown is important to shed the water off of the road. If you don't do this, you will end up with standing water and that leads to potholes.

You will find that materials used vary allot around the country. The guys up north spend way more money and use allot more material than we do down her in the southern states.

The most common material and most important for you base is rock that varies in size from several inches down to very fine particles. When spread out and compacted, this will lock together and form a solid mass. It needs to be at least 4 inches thick to work. Any thinner and it will move and not become solid. More is better, but it's expesive and not really needed.

Nothing else is really needed. When a low spot develops, just add more rock and smooth it out.

There are two important things to make sure happens. One, make sure the dirt is compacted. Hard dirt doesn't move when you drive over it. Freshly dug dirt will. Second, hire a road grader to spread the gravel. If you try to do it with a compact tractor and a box blade, a rear blade or back draging a front bucket, you will have an uneven, wavey road that will never be any good. Hire it out the first time and it will be smooth. Then it's easier to repair.

A big mistake that I think allot of people make is to drag there gravel road with a box blade. This moves the rock around the road to make it a little smoother after awhile, but it also breaks up the locked together rock and you end up looseing a certain percentage of your rock. Each time this is done, there is less rock on the road.

Depending on the condition of the road and the price of rock ($14 a ton in my area the last time I bought some), this could cost at least $20,000. If you need culverts, and you hire out a grader, it could easily go up to $25,000 or even $30,000.

I'm guessing you might get a grand or two out of everybody, but not enough to do the entire road. Taking on this project will also put you in the middle of any problems that occur down the road. Lots of people like to point fingers and blame somebody for there problems. You might very well end up being the bad guy in this if you take it on.

Good luck, but I'd advice go slow and cautiously. Be sure you know the neighborhood and expect the worse. It's just the way some people are when it comes to money and there perceptions of others.

Eddie

 

[dirtworksequip]

Woodlandfarms, hmmmmm.......with that much rainfall its going to be a tough proposition to keep the road maintained. The trouble being, that if it stays wet any small pothole just keeps getting bigger.

It may be better to find someone that has a motor grader that can regrade the existing road and cut in any needed ditches. If you can find a good operator he should be able to make 1 mile of road look really good in about 4 hours or less not including the ditches. The only problem with having someone work the road with a grader is you will probably loose the stone on top and need to get more stone hauled in to top dress. If you can find a grader with a serrated cutting edge it will save alot of stone from being lost.

As far as properly constructing a road using big stone first and then toping out with a finer material I really don't believe in that. Go with a crusher run stone all the way and you will have a better road and spend less money to construct the road. Lots of debate on the big stone first therory. I won't go into that discussion because time and space do not permit it.

As far as the road being fine. Just look to see if there is good drainage. If the road stays wet or there is water laying on or next to it thats where the problem is. The key to keeping a good road is keeping it as dry as possible. A little bit of water will cause lots of soft spots and the road will just not hold up. The time you will spend maintaining the road will also depend on how nice you want to keep it. The more time you spend the nicer it should stay.

If you take on the maintenance of the road be prepared to spend 1/2 a day once a month to do it right and keep it in good condition. What is your soil type out there? If its sandy- rocky type and drains good you may be able to get away with less time in the maintenance.

One other thing......speed is the second killer of stone roads with water being number one. The faster vehicles travel on it the more damage is done, especially when it is staying wet. Therefore more maintenance will be needed.

I'll try and take some pics of a road I built that gets about 45 to 65 vehicles a day on it. Plus once a year heavy construction traffic (concrete mixers,tandem dump trucks and building supply delivery trucks) because someone is building a new home.If I am able to get the pics today I'll post later tonight.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Eddie and Dirtworks

Thanks so much for the reply. Your answers were what i feared / expected / and maybe wanted to hear.

I will take the initiative to suggest a proper road to the locals, but we have a few people who a couple grand is beyond there means. I will not be getting involved with maintenance other than a good neighbor plan. I work out of town a lot and can be gone for months...

The area land is clay. Welcome to the pacific north west I guess...

So one more question, a bit more specific. What do you do for general maintenance. Pull gravel back onto the roadbed? Fill in potholes that are developing? What I am getting at is how do you fix a problem and what problems do you guys face?

We were just informed that we are getting "city" (LUD for those in the know) water out to us. There is some serious arsenic issues at the start of the road. This means the county will be tearing our road up, but they were pretty clear in the meeting they are going to fill the holes they make and that is about it.

The other thing about our road is that it is on a steep ravine, and it has gorgeous 100' fir trees that line the road. Whoever cut the road weaved it in and out of the trees. Also, it is only one car width wide. You run into someone, and one of you is backing down the road. and into a driveway. the county wanted the road widened for the water project, but got the bill and said no way...

We have had large 10 ton trucks up here, and I think our home was drug up here along the road, but I don't know how the did that.

Anyway. I am happy to provide pictures if someone wants a giggle, but I just really wanted to thank you guys for the info.

I have that PDF of road construction from Maine that is a great read on road building. Just says nothing about maintenance...

Thanks again

Carl

 

[JoeinTX]

Yes, as far as routine maintenance, keeping the material on the road is the biggest factor. Traffic and the elements can move a good deal of it off of the road and it will need to be brought back periodically.

Other items routine would be low lying areas and places where run-off is eroding the road surface.

From what you've described, it sounds like a major overhaul with large amounts of new gravel and a sound working from a grader is out. You are probably down to spot-maintenance of the worst areas on whatever budget is available to you. Your tractor with a blade and a little fresh material to work with can do a fair amount of approvement.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Yes, as far as routine maintenance, keeping the material on the road is the biggest factor. Traffic and the elements can move a good deal of it off of the road and it will need to be brought back periodically.

Other items routine would be low lying areas and places where run-off is eroding the road surface.

From what you've described, it sounds like a major overhaul with large amounts of new gravel and a sound working from a grader is out. You are probably down to spot-maintenance of the worst areas on whatever budget is available to you. Your tractor with a blade and a little fresh material to work with can do a fair amount of approvement.

Hey Joe

Thanks for your notes. Now with the twist of this water project and the fact we are getting lots of rain, I am going to sit back and watch the potholes blossom. In the spring we will get back on it. Also thanks on the flat blade. Will try and get my hands on one.

carl

 

[dqdave1]

Since the water line is going to be installed; have the contractor that does the work use a grader to redo the work. He may have to rent one, but you can suggest that the home owners will help with the bill.

In Ohio, the state "grinds" the blacktop road surfaces to keep heights the same and remove detereorated blacktop. They sell the "blacktop grindings" cheap and they make a good surface. You may want to start blacktopping the road a little at a time as money becomes available.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Woodlandfarms, I posted some road maintenance tips for you in another thread ROAD MAINTENANCE/EQUIPMENT in the PROJECT FORUM

 

[EddieWalker]

We were just informed that we are getting "city" (LUD for those in the know) water out to us. There is some serious arsenic issues at the start of the road. This means the county will be tearing our road up, but they were pretty clear in the meeting they are going to fill the holes they make and that is about it.

Carl,

From your description of the road and how tight it is with those trees, I really wonder how many will survive putting a water line in. I don't know your pince, but some are very, very sensitive to having there roots cut. My experience is they will die one year after the damage. You will see the needles turn brown on a branch, then another branch until it's the entire tree.

When they do the work, they will be able to buy rock tax free and at a price better than most private citizens can get. See if you can pay them the price of the rock to lay and grade the rock.

As for maintenance, fill the holes with rock as soon as you can. The longer you have a hole, the bigger it will get. Fill when it's dry and compact it hard by driving over it many, many times. If it settles below grade, add more rock. You never want to have a low spot that holds water.

You can also mark areas on the road that hold water after a rain. These areas are pot holes in the early stages. How long depends on the rock and traffic, but if left alone, they will form.

Please show some pics. Seeing them will help to understand your situation better and maybe somebody will come up with something we all missed when looking at the pictures.

Eddie