Schiesters and ignorant sellers

[Soundguy]

I was reading the Heavy equipment trader this am, and must have counted 5 yanmar adds that we3re either misleading or blatently wrong.. Anything from 'american made' used to describe one unit.. to other like live pto on a unit that deffinately didn't have it.. and incorrect model numbers.. IE a 2wd model number used to describe a model that was 4wd.. etc.

Hitt traderonline.com and select yanmar and florida.. and you can see the stuff that is inthe florida print magazine... Either a bunch of schiesters or just plain ignorant owners..

soundguy

 

[LMTC]

HERE

This site is a classic example of the types you reference. Do a Zennoh search in their listings as well. Gotta love the 1998 YM155, the 2000 YM186D, and particularly the 1983 Yanmar 1500 (4wd, but not listed as a D) w/ a Koyker 80 loader for $12,000 "negotiable." Many more, including a 1996 1510D, a 1983 YM1900 (one of the very few models most of us simply do not buy), a 1990 YM2000, and so on. There seems to be an incredibly high proportion of misrepresentation on this site. I would not want to be affiliated with it in any way.

The incredibly frustrating issue for many dealers is that MANY folks still buy from these sellers, apparently without making much or any effort to verify the information. There is certainly enough online now that an hour or two with Google should make someone aware that such information is at best questionable. The one thing that I have always thought would slow these people down is if buyers insisted on references...and not just current references. Get a reference from someone who HAD a problem with their tractor and find out how the seller resolved it. Get 3-4 references a year old or more.

As information is more and more readily available, and is more and more consistent about these tractors, hopefully it will cut down on the market share these folks can prey on.

 

[buppy69]

It happens locally here all the time. I was talking to a guy at work. He's always asking about a tractor I have for sale but he keeps buying from a VN recon dealer. He's on his 3rd tractor because they keep selling him a tractor that's too small for his needs. He told me last week that he is the original owner of a Mitsubishi D2050. That's what the dealer told him and I can't convince him otherwise.

Eugene

 

[VT_Hokie]

I did not know the market was so good. I will let mine go for $10,000 and you can pick out an implement from what is in the barn!

 

[Soundguy]

I know a guy that was going to buy a good used yanmar from a friend of mine.. he instead bought the same model ( for more $$ ) from a local 'dealer' because it was a 90's unit.. and a decade+ 'newer' than my friends... go figure..

Soundguy

HERE

This site is a classic example of the types you reference. Do a Zennoh search in their listings as well. Gotta love the 1998 YM155, the 2000 YM186D, and particularly the 1983 Yanmar 1500 (4wd, but not listed as a D) w/ a Koyker 80 loader for $12,000 "negotiable." Many more, including a 1996 1510D, a 1983 YM1900 (one of the very few models most of us simply do not buy), a 1990 YM2000, and so on. There seems to be an incredibly high proportion of misrepresentation on this site. I would not want to be affiliated with it in any way.

The incredibly frustrating issue for many dealers is that MANY folks still buy from these sellers, apparently without making much or any effort to verify the information. There is certainly enough online now that an hour or two with Google should make someone aware that such information is at best questionable. The one thing that I have always thought would slow these people down is if buyers insisted on references...and not just current references. Get a reference from someone who HAD a problem with their tractor and find out how the seller resolved it. Get 3-4 references a year old or more.

As information is more and more readily available, and is more and more consistent about these tractors, hopefully it will cut down on the market share these folks can prey on.

 

[buppy69]

I especially like the Shibaura 2043 on ebay that has 35hp and 28 PTO hp and ALL parts from a Ford 1710 will fit it.

Eugene

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. love those posts.. Like Yanmar tractors.. " you can get parts from any JD dealer"..

Soundguy

 

[buppy69]

This morning I read on ebay that Yanmar builds tractors for John Deere and Kubota.

Eugene

 

[LMTC]

Imagine now that you lose 30-40 or more sales a year to this kind of marketing and imagine how sensitized you might become to it. In 2000 a certain distributor near Atlanta of "factory reconditioned" tractors set up an individual about 50 miles from us. At the same time they started sending these units to auctions in central Ohio and elsewhere. All with "zero hours on a new rebuild". And many 1990s and 2000 model year YM 1600s, 1700s, 2000s, etc. We can't compete because our units are "older". Imagine now that they and their reseller(s) tell their customers that we are the Yanmar warranty station. I can't tell you how many calls we have had, and people on site, and almost none would get angry with the seller....they preferred to believe we just didn't want to service them.

What you are seeing and commenting on now is a microcosm of what we have seen/heard/faced for 6 years now. We get calls/emails about this literally daily. Recently lost a sale because the other seller (per the customer, who has little reason to lie about something like parts availability) told the customer he could get every part he would need for his FX whatever-model-it-was from JD, as every single part was used in JD tractors. Customer chose not to believe me. This is why I always urge shoppers to get references..lots of them, and some from a year or more ago. Guy like this seller, he won't have a lot of long term references.

OK--sorry for the rant and ramble. Just wanted to say, yeah, this deceptive advertising and outright lying stinks, but we encounter it routinely. That's a good bit of why I personally might tend to over react to it.

 

[roxynoodle]

This morning I read on ebay that Yanmar builds tractors for John Deere and Kubota.

Eugene

I saw that one, too. I also saw a Chinese tractor being advertised with a JD engine.

As for the recons, it is unfortunate that those people will likely continue to make money lying to sellers. They sound good in the advertising. A person reads about all the stuff that was allegedly done on the tractors and sees the nice new paint job and they seem like a better buy than a used, original condition tractor. People will think to ask a daycare or babysitter for references but not a tractor dealer. And to be honest I did the same thing, although not a recon, but I didn't ask for references before I bought my tractor. I asked for them before I hired a roofer though and called them. As for JD for parts I don't think most people realize that JD tractors that were built by Yanmar were built to their specs. They couldn't even make a hydraulic hose for me because my fittings are metric and theirs are SAE.

I hate liars and thieves so I feel bad to hear unscrupulous people are cutting into sales for honest dealers and leaving them to deal with complaints.

 

[pruntyc]

But Eugene, Yanmar does build tractors for John Deere, have for years. So that much of the story is true.

 

[Soundguy]

Technically yes.. but the way the info is presented.. it virtually makes it a falsehood... The statement:Yanmar builds tractors for John Deere and Kubota.. is not correct. Yanmar does /has built some tractors for JD.. though i know of no kubota tractors that had a yanmar origin.

A bag of incorrect facts is not made correct by have a few correct tidbits intersparsed... That correct info is dripped in just enough to make the whole lie believable.

Again.. I attribute this kind of behavior to ignorant owners.. or liars.. I have no tolerance for liars.. and as for ignorance? some tolerance.. assuming they come around when you show them the cold hard facts... though unfortunately many of them don't.. as they perhaps feel embarrassed? or??

Soundguy

 

[roxynoodle]

I, too, doubted Yanmar building anything for Kubota. I have recently seen Yanmar engines turn up places I didn't expect them to though, like a Deutz-Allis and a Bobcat.

 

[buppy69]

But Eugene, Yanmar does build tractors for John Deere, have for years. So that much of the story is true.

I was stating the sentence just as it was presented. I know they made some John Deere. But they didn't make John Deere and Kubota.

Eugene

 

[Soundguy]

Agreed... the sentencance is a 'false' statement, when looking at the rules of logic, due to the fact that both statements in the 'and' compound statment would have to be true for the entire ststement to be true. If any element is false, then according to the rules of logic, the entire statement is false. Had it been an 'or' statement.. a single portion of it being 'true' would have qualified the statement as being 'true' even if other portions were 'false'.

Still... I coun't those people as scheisters..

Soundguy

 

[LMTC]

Agreed... the sentencance is a 'false' statement, when looking at the rules of logic, due to the fact that both statements in the 'and' compound statment would have to be true for the entire ststement to be true. If any element is false, then according to the rules of logic, the entire statement is false. Had it been an 'or' statement.. a single portion of it being 'true' would have qualified the statement as being 'true' even if other portions were 'false'.

Still... I coun't those people as scheisters..

Soundguy

I am in total agreement with both parts of your post here. The latter is important, as there is simply too much information available to the person who will take the time to research it to allow them the luxury of being called "misinformed". I am convinced that one of the techniques they intentionally use is to mix a little "commonly known true" into the batch to try to make the rest of the information appear to be true. This particular marketing (newer model year than actual, higher HP than actual, ALL parts available through a domestic OEM, etc.) has gone on too long, and has been too consistent in it's supposed errors for me to believe it's error most of the time any longer.

And even if one gives these sellers the huge benefit of the doubt and allows that it is ignorance.....why buy from an ignorant seller when there are plenty of reputable businesses in this market? It's not a new market anymore. We go back to '94, and we weren't among the first....though most who were doing this before us are gone now.

 

[Soundguy]

I totally agree. It boils down to an ignorant seller.. or a liar. ( who wants to buy from a liar). And as for the ignorant seller.. why by from them. if they truly don't know what they have.. how could they have done correct maintenance or repairs on the unit.

Same with antique tractors. i love to see people selling stuff.. calling it wrong name / manufacturer, or year. Then they say it runs great and they have had it for a long time. ( if they did.. and didn't know what tractor they had.. how did they buy parts for it!!!! )

soundguy