seeding/liming questions..

psuedofarmer · Apr 20, 2005

i'm in a rush to prep fields to take advantage of some well-needed weekend rain - i need to lime and seed 5 a. of field.

are there any negative impacts associated with liming and seeding simultaneously?

will adding pelletized lime negatively impact the germination of clover/rye? i've read that when raising pH, do it gradually.. but it says nothing about liming/seeding at the same time and i'm wondering if i need to wait for the lime to dissolve prior to seeding..

thx in advance!
pf

edski · Apr 20, 2005

1st I don't know, but that's never slowed me before. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
2nd Lime has a pH of around 12-12.5. I doubt this is ideal for germination.
3rd Lime takes time to raise the pH of soil (chealated is faster). If this was a major concern, you may be late.

IMHO...I'd seed then lime latter. I'd also contact my county Ag agent and follow their advice and guidance.

Bowhunter · Apr 20, 2005

Lime takes about 6 months to do its job, so it should not hurt to broadcast both together.

psuedofarmer · Apr 20, 2005

thanks for the quick replies.. just got off the phone with the county ag extension and my local garden center, all said the same thing: pelletized will take time to break down, so little/no impact on germination.

phew.

the last thing i want to do is spend more $ on expensive organic seed (and remind my wife why organic is too $#@ expensive to pursue!)

thx again.
pf

coveredbridge · Apr 20, 2005

( i'm in a rush to prep fields to take advantage of some well-needed weekend rain - i need to lime and seed 5 a. of field.

are there any negative impacts associated with liming and seeding simultaneously?

will adding pelletized lime negatively impact the germination of clover/rye? i've read that when raising pH, do it gradually.. but it says nothing about liming/seeding at the same time and i'm wondering if i need to wait for the lime to dissolve prior to seeding..

thx in advance!
pf )

Mind if I ask if you had the soil tested for pH and what the pH was?

psuedofarmer · Apr 20, 2005

Mind if I ask if you had the soil tested for pH and what the pH was? 

pH ranged between 5.5 and 6 (on average) for each field. tests were down in 3 locations: uphill point, mid pt., and low end pt. results were averaged to give me a consistent 5.5 for the entire area.

i recall my grandfather telling me that he usually put 1 ton/ac. each year (i don't think he ever tested the soil!).

i've read that raising the pH should be done gradually..

any advice welcome!
pf

TNhobbyfarmer · Apr 20, 2005

A guy at a local co-op where I shop told me that pelletized lime goes to work immediately and ag lime can take up to 6 months to work. He recommended using pelletized lime in the spring when planting in order to get immediate results. He also said that pelletized lime could be used at a lower rate than ag lime, 750 lbs. for every ton recommended by a soil test. Pelletized lime is more expensive than ag lime but because of the lower rate required, it's about a wash with respect to price. The other down side of pelletized is that it only works for the current growing season whereas ag lime can last for years. Anyway, that is what I was told by a supposed expert. Any of you guys have a differing opinion? I would be curious as to your thoughts.

coveredbridge · Apr 20, 2005

( Mind if I ask if you had the soil tested for pH and what the pH was? 

pH ranged between 5.5 and 6 (on average) for each field. tests were down in 3 locations: uphill point, mid pt., and low end pt. results were averaged to give me a consistent 5.5 for the entire area.

i recall my grandfather telling me that he usually put 1 ton/ac. each year (i don't think he ever tested the soil!).

i've read that raising the pH should be done gradually..

any advice welcome!
pf )

Reason I asked is that when I had my soil tested before I planted my ryegrass, it came back with pH 7.5. The ag dept recommended adding sulfur to lower pH to 7.0. When I inquired about why the pH was so high, I was told that a lot of times, people who didn't really know what they were doing would overlime a field that was producing poorly, without even testing the soil, because lime was cheap. Now that I think about it, when I was telling my "helpful" neighbor that I was getting the soil tested, he said, "that field probably just needs limed." Apparently that's what happened to my field because when I bought the property, there was a big pile of lime sitting by the field. I assume it was leftover from the last application. And I didn't know enough then to find out. I was also told that it's a whole lot easier to raise pH than lower it, so raising the pH gradually would seem to be a good idea.

I also tested another plot on the same property that had not been previously tilled. It tested at pH 5.5. The recommendation was to add 8 lb lime per 100 sf, roughly 3,500 lb per acre, so your grandfather's practice seems to be right on the mark. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Clover and rye makes great cover crop, and the deer love it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

psuedofarmer · Apr 21, 2005

Clover and rye makes great cover crop, and the deer love it 

absolutely correct... i told my wife we needed green manure, but the truth is I can now hunt from the front porch instead of the tree stand!

pH is easier (and cheaper) to raise than lower; the key is not just testing, but testing in multiple locations to achieve an average. in some cases, the pH would be an ideal 6.8.. 150 ft down slope the pH was 5.5.

good observations on pelletized lime - when you consider the ease of use and the amount spread per acre, it seems to be similar in cost to ag lime.

as for the rate of dispersion, everyone i spoke with suggested that the pelletized would be better than ag lime in my situation because i'm going to be seeding simultaneously.

as edski pointed out, the pH of lime is rather high.. and it will impact germination. i'm going to 1/2 the rate of the lime application during germination, and will add more in the Fall.

i'll report back with soil test results shortly..

thanks again for all the feedback!

pf

rambler · Apr 25, 2005

( A guy at a local co-op where I shop told me that pelletized lime goes to work immediately and ag lime can take up to 6 months to work. He recommended using pelletized lime in the spring when planting in order to get immediate results. He also said that pelletized lime could be used at a lower rate than ag lime, 750 lbs. for every ton recommended by a soil test. Pelletized lime is more expensive than ag lime but because of the lower rate required, it's about a wash with respect to price. The other down side of pelletized is that it only works for the current growing season whereas ag lime can last for years. Anyway, that is what I was told by a supposed expert. Any of you guys have a differing opinion? I would be curious as to your thoughts. )

I live in an area of Minnesota where we don't lime, but your explination would be exactly right for us grain farmers.

Best bang for the buck is ag lime spread in fall, let it work, & it typically works for 3 years or so before the soil pulls the ph down again. Pelletized will be better for spreading this spring as it will get to work quicker, but it will only help for one year, not 3, and it costs so much more.

I have never heard of any issue of lime bothering the seedlings, as lime acts slowly. It will mostly be bound up in the chunks/ pellets when you spread it, so I'd not go 1/2 rate.... Your fertlizers will not be properly used if the ph is too low, so not using enough lime or applying so late will cost you 2x - in wasted fertilizer that you apply but the plants don't use.

My comments are more geared for 1000 acres of farm land where one needs to show a profit, on a small seed plot you will do fine whatever you do.....

--->Paul