Selecting the right joystick for my loader

[rhamer]

As I have mentioned in other threads, I am building a loader for my tractor.

I had previously asked about which control valves to buy, and I had settled on using a joystick (for lift & curl) with a solenoid valve to convert the curl to 4 in 1 open close.

Then I found a thread on regenerative valves Here and I now have a few questions.

If I got a valve like this one it appears to have the regen function?

Does that mean the regen functionality would affect the 4 in 1 open/close when I switch it to that function?

They seem to use the term regen and float. I assume float is on the up/down valve and regen on the other?

I also see these regen valves described a 4 position V 3 position for valves without it. Is it 4 pos because it has left,neutral,right,regen (or similar) positions?

Are the cylinders any different between regen and non regen setups, or is it all just in the valve?

Cheers

Rohan

 

[aczlan]

if I messed up on how a regen valve works, please feel free to correct me. I have never used one, I have just read about them.

Does that mean the regen functionality would affect the 4 in 1 open/close when I switch it to that function?

edit: yes, it will make your 4 in 1 close a little faster

They seem to use the term regen and float. I assume float is on the up/down valve and regen on the other?

float means that there is a position on the valve where there is no hydraulic down pressure on the loader arms and they can "float" up and down as the ground goes up and down, it is not generally installed on the bucket only on the loader arms. regen can be on the loader arm or the bucket circuit.
edit: regen can be the same as float, more info here: http://machinedesign.com/ContentIte...tesfullforceregenerativehydrauliccircuit.aspx

I also see these regen valves described a 4 position V 3 position for valves without it. Is it 4 pos because it has left,neutral,right,regen (or similar) positions?

not certain, on the 3 pos vs 4 pos.

what regen does it that when your loader arms are up and you start to bring them down, it lets the oil coming out of the bottom of the cyl go into the top of the cyl right in the valve block, thus giving you a higher flow rate to the cylinders, allowing you to move the cylinders faster without increasing the size/pressure of the tractor hyd pump system.

Are the cylinders any different between regen and non regen setups, or is it all just in the valve?

it is all in the valve.


HTH

Aaron Z

 

[rhamer]

Thanks Aaron for your comments.

Can anybody else help with the parts still to be answered?

Cheers

Rohan

 

[3RRL]

Hi Rohan,
First, I presume you're getting a diverter solenoid valve and not a third function solenoid valve. That valve you found at Surplus Center will work for you and has float and regen. Just be sure it is rated for at least the gpm of your system. A friend of mine used that valve on his tractor and seems to like it.
Looks like you pretty much figured it out and Aaron helped explain it.
Here is how I think it works.
The float only works on the lowering of the fel. Push the joystick forward to lower the bucket and then farther (past lowering it) to go into float. The bucket will float up and down then. The rapid regen works for the dump of the bucket and I'm not sure it works for the curl. But when you switch to using the 4 in one, it will affect it since those functions (dump and curl) are switched to operating your 4 in one closing and opening via the solenoid valve. There's no difference in the cylinders like Aaron said, it's all done by that valve.

 

[rhamer]

Hi Rohan,
First, I presume you're getting a diverter solenoid valve and not a third function solenoid valve.

I don't know, what is the difference?

But when you switch to using the 4 in one, it will affect it since those functions (dump and curl) are switched to operating your 4 in one closing and opening via the solenoid valve.

But is that ok? Will it make the 4 in 1 hard to operate?

It seems to me that the regen position is an additional position on the valve (like the float is in the other direction) so I dont need to use it when switched to the 4 in 1. I'm assuming the left to right on the valve is something like "left" "neutral" "right" "regen" so I just dont push it too far to the right when switched to the 4 in 1. Is this correct?

Thanks for your help,

Cheers

Rohan

 

[kennyd]

I don't know, what is the difference?

Sorry for the late reply, I missed your thread.

The diverter basically "splits" the dump/curl circuit, so when a button is pushed-the left/right of the joystick operate the 4n1 instead of the curl circuit.

Since you are plumbing all new, then I suggest going with the solenoid spool valve, it will operate independently of the joystick. You would basically have a three position switch that would operate the 4n1 one like this: OPEN-OFF-ClOSE.

The regen function of the valve will not be a problem with your 4n1 bucket, especially if you use the solenoid spool valve as it takes the joystick out of the equation.

 

[rhamer]

So if I understand correctly, the joystick is not used for the 4 in 1 at all?

The solenoid spool valve runs the 4 in independantly and is operated by a center off spring return 3 way switch?

Will this be ok for fine control, say I want to pick up something, but not crush it. I guess the cylinders act reasonably slowly anyway and I could put a simple restrictor washer in the circuit if it does run too fast.

One of the hard things is actually finding a joystick handle with a nice thumb switch position to allow one handed operation of all 3 functions. Does anybody have a lead on such a thing.

Thanks everybody for your help, I'll have to start posting some photos of by progress, as it's starting to come together slowly.

Cheers

Rohan

 

[3RRL]

For some reason from your first post I just presumed you were going to use a diverter valve. I too would use a true third function solenoid valve which works exactly like Kenny says. I have them on both of my tractors to operate the bucket grapples on them. You can do like you say, restrict the flow and use smaller post hoses to slow the movement down for better control. But it's still an on and off button and no feathering of a joystick spool valve.
It works great for our grapple use.
When I added the grapple to my wife's tractor, I listed all the components for adding the third function solenoid valve including some installation tips. We found a neat joystick that has a thumb operated rocker switch to operate the solenoid valve. There are button configurations available too....your choice. It's best to call and mention you were referred by us here at TBN. He might give you a discount but for sure will build the joystick just as you want it.
Here is the thread. The components are listed starting in reply #24 and onward. There are links to each of the components. Check them out.
My Very Own Grapples

 

[kennyd]

You have many options, You mentioned the solenoid in your first post, so I assumed that is what you wanted...

You could just as easily plumb a regular spool valve along side of the joystick valve to control your 4n1.

+'s- Would be cheaper, and no fancy handle or switches needed, and you can feather the controls

-'s- Would not be able to keep hand on joystick to operate 4n1, but you would get used to it quickly.


Again, you have tons choices...

 

[rhamer]

Thanks for all the help so far.

The problem with choices is then I have to make a decision

I'll sleep on it tonight and see if It's clearer tomorrow.

Cheers

Rohan