Buying Advice Should A Front Loader Be 4WD?

[Dmace]

What do you have? That seems pretty heavy for that HP. I have a B7800/30HP and not nearly that heavy. 2600 lbs. w/ loader and bucket figured in, add max calcium in rears for only an additional 225#. Still less than 3000# My L4350 would be near the weight you stated and she is 45 HP.

My little 21hp Kioti with the loader, backhoe, aftermarket cab and loaded tires should come in just over 4,000lbs. It still has plenty of power for working in low range and driving around in high. Kubota's tend to be very light for their power which was one of the turn-off's for me when shopping.

 

[wolc123]

The reason I would not buy an old, 2wd tractor with a loader is that rarely will you find one that has not been abused. It is very difficult to avoid abusing a machine that has such a severe traction issue. There are often points in the life of the machine, when an operator will have run short on time to get the job done and use momentum to get a full bucket. I remember one time when my nieghbor lost a track on his dozer 7/8 of the way thru stripping a lot that he had to get done on schedule. He finished the job with his Ford, 2wd utility tractor/loader. He pushed that tractor to the breaking point and got the job done, and that is one tractor I would not want to own after. This causes an astronomical force spike that breaks welds, shears pins and bolts, breaks cylinders, and bends supports. All those G's of decelleration cause damage throughout the tractor, especially the front axle and steering components. Momentum aint required to get a full bucket with 4wd, since traction increases as the bucket is filled, allowing the smooth application of force with no spikes. A rookie can quickly master the technique, while even an experienced operater is hamstrung on the 2wd and will damage the machine without even realizing it is happening. I have used a rear loader on a 2wd tractor and it was suprisingly effective since there was no traction issue, but it did result in a bit of a stiff neck. If your uses are such that 4wd really is not necessary, such as spearing hay bales with a second spear on the 3-point (obviously load that one first), you would be much further ahead to buy an old tractor that never had a loader on it and mount an after-market loader. I would hate to seee what that pretty blue paint is covering up on that picture of the Ford 2wd with loader.

 

[travis potter]

Old IH with1400# of foam in all 4 tires No problem with 2WHD and loader the foam makes the diff. No flats ,No traction, can't pull a big plow but I can go over aneythingand not have a flat I use it for brush cutting and put the fel close to the ground to catch the stumps and big rocks.

 

[flusher]

I read a comment on here that got me thinking: A tractor with a front loader should be a 4WD because a 2WD tractor doesn't have enough traction to operate a loader. Is this true? Having grown up on a farm and worked on a dairy farm, I am somewhat familiar with tractors. But I have very little experience with front loaders...

Thanks.

- djb

Yeah, 4WD is nice for FEL work. But not absolutely necessary. I've learned to use both pretty efficiently without much difficulty.

And you have to be aware of certain limitations of 4WD when using the FEL.
For example, if you jam the bucket into a pile of whatever while in 4WD with the tractor wheels on a surface where they can't spin easily (e.g. concrete) when loading the bucket, you run the risk of messing up the front wheel drive system bad.

 

[SPYDERLK]

The reason I would not buy an old, 2wd tractor with a loader is that rarely will you find one that has not been abused. It is very difficult to avoid abusing a machine that has such a severe traction issue. ...

Good point. Good post.
larry

 

[jlsmith]

Yeah, 4WD is nice for FEL work. But not absolutely necessary. I've learned to use both pretty efficiently without much difficulty.

And you have to be aware of certain limitations of 4WD when using the FEL.
For example, if you jam the bucket into a pile of whatever while in 4WD with the tractor wheels on a surface where they can't spin easily (e.g. concrete) when loading the bucket, you run the risk of messing up the front wheel drive system bad.

Verry good answer. I agree 100% Its nice to have but dont have to have it to use a fel. Used one for years without 4wd.:thumbsup:

 

[TripleR]

Well, I used an outhouse growing up and technically it was as effective as what I now have, but to say one is as good as the other would be misleading.:laughing:

 

[SPYDERLK]

There ya go.
larry

 

[Qapla]

I have used both as well as tracks.

I will say for most FEL work, tracks work best. However, on a tractor, tracks are not so great.

2WD will be able to run a FEL, but with more work involved, however, they mow and pull a plow just fine.

That puts a 4WD machine in between tracks and 2WD. Look at it this way, with a 4WD, you can turn the 4WD off and operate in 2WD mode when wanted/needed. With a 2WD you CANNOT turn the front wheels on even if you want to.

We have a 4WD and the main use is FEL/BH work on dirt. We keep it in 4WD most of the time. Haven't gotten it stuck so bad that I've had to pull it out yet.

 

[Dargo]

For example, if you jam the bucket into a pile of whatever while in 4WD with the tractor wheels on a surface where they can't spin easily (e.g. concrete) when loading the bucket, you run the risk of messing up the front wheel drive system bad.

Really?? I suppose I'm glad I've never owned a lower tier tractor. I've done that thousands of times for hundreds and hundreds of hours with my tractors and have never had an issue. That would have to be where the quality of the tractor comes into play. I don't abuse my equipment but I sure as heck didn't buy it to baby it and slow me down when working.

Last winter I was clearing a parking lot that I've cleared for many years in the past when, much to my surprise, I found one slab of concrete must have sank a bit. I was tooling along with my loader down and 8' rear blade down making a pass at about 6 or 7 mph and my bucket squarely hit a slab sticking up about 2". I hit so hard that a lady watching said my rear tires came up in the air almost a foot. If I didn't have my seat belt on, I would have gone through the windshield.

I just knew I ruined my tractor. Much to my surprise, other than a bent windshield wiper arm (flopped forward so hard it bent), I had no other damage. I broke about a 10' section out of the slab I hit, but after hours of looking and feeling while using the tractor, I didn't do any other damage I've found. I hope to never do that again, but again, a lower quality tractor would have likely broken in half in that situation.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I read a comment on here that got me thinking: A tractor with a front loader should be a 4WD because a 2WD tractor doesn't have enough traction to operate a loader. Is this true? Having grown up on a farm and worked on a dairy farm, I am somewhat familiar with tractors. But I have very little experience with front loaders...

Thanks.

- djb

In my opinion, there is no simple answer to this question. A lot depends on where you operate and what you do. Soil type and soil conditions play a big part in selection. In general, if you are lifting heavy loads (like a large round bales) with a FEL on a regular basis in all weather conditions on clay type soils, I believe their you would be prudent to have FWD or FWA whatever you want to call it.
If you've ever tried to approach a feeder in the middle of winter with a large round bale on your loader with a 2WD tractor and your rear wheels start to spin and you are so close to the feeder you'll damge it if you lower the bale but are not close enough to drop it in and you can't back up with the bale, you'll know what I'm talking about!
The other factor is the strength capability of the front axles. A lot of 2WD tractors have axles that are not capable of heavy FEL use. Generally speaking FWA axles are stronger and the front traction capability can help you ought of tough traction conditions. If you're just cleaning sawdust and manure out of a few stalls or carrying a few small square bales of hay out to feed, you maight be OK with an FEL on a 2WD.

We ranch in the Northern Rockies on clay soils and I have a 2WD tractor with loaded tires and I really need a FWA tractor to winter feed. (I also need one with a cab since I'm getting a bit long in the tooth to be winter feeding in cold weather with an open station machine, but that's another story.) Hardly anyone feeds cattle with 2WD around here except guys that have road access to where they feed and me.

So look at you present and potentially future uses for your tractor, consider the soil types and the weather conditions you'll operate in and the weight of loads you'll be dealing with and make an intelligent choice based on that.

 

[tessiers]

The reason I would not buy an old, 2wd tractor with a loader is that rarely will you find one that has not been abused. It is very difficult to avoid abusing a machine that has such a severe traction issue. There are often points in the life of the machine, when an operator will have run short on time to get the job done and use momentum to get a full bucket. I remember one time when my nieghbor lost a track on his dozer 7/8 of the way thru stripping a lot that he had to get done on schedule. He finished the job with his Ford, 2wd utility tractor/loader. He pushed that tractor to the breaking point and got the job done, and that is one tractor I would not want to own after. This causes an astronomical force spike that breaks welds, shears pins and bolts, breaks cylinders, and bends supports. All those G's of decelleration cause damage throughout the tractor, especially the front axle and steering components. Momentum aint required to get a full bucket with 4wd, since traction increases as the bucket is filled, allowing the smooth application of force with no spikes. A rookie can quickly master the technique, while even an experienced operater is hamstrung on the 2wd and will damage the machine without even realizing it is happening. I have used a rear loader on a 2wd tractor and it was suprisingly effective since there was no traction issue, but it did result in a bit of a stiff neck. If your uses are such that 4wd really is not necessary, such as spearing hay bales with a second spear on the 3-point (obviously load that one first), you would be much further ahead to buy an old tractor that never had a loader on it and mount an after-market loader. I would hate to seee what that pretty blue paint is covering up on that picture of the Ford 2wd with loader.

Just my 2 cents but 4x4 tractors can and do get beat just as hard and even more so than 2x4 tractors. Human nature is to push anything one has to its limits, higher limits = more pushing. Not saying everyone does it but those who do have no regard for what they are operating. Paint will cover the 4x4's just as well as the 2x4's. I challenge you to show me a 4x4 tractor that has done heavy loader work without proper ballast and hasen't had front seals replaced, they do not exist. I worked on a 500 head dairy farm and the loader tractor that we loaded silage with had a welder strapped to the loader, wrong tool, wrong job, 4x4. On my farm my primary loader tractor is 4x4, I like it and would miss it terribly without the 4x4. I have and do use loaders on 2x4 tractors often and I would say they are just as effective and just as safe as the 4x4 tractors, with different limitations. I agree weight is the evener in all of this, either of the tractor itself or ballast. My point on front end seals is if you need the front wheels to pull the tractor it has too much weight on the front end, regardless of size or design, unless its a forklift. A tractor that weighs 4000 lbs and normally rides with 75% weight on rear end, and has enough load in bucket to lift rear wheels has 7000 lbs on front end, too much period. Not trashing anyone just pointing out a few details.

 

[wolc123]

I agree with you that there are 4x4's that get beat up, but it is not at all necessary and much easier to avoid doing it on them than it is a 2wd. The 4wd does not have the obvious traction issue of unloading the drive wheels as the bucket fills. With a little practice, one can almost always get a full bucket with a smooth application of power and without relying on momentum. There will always be those that will push the envelope on any machine, but from what I have seen, they are the exception rather than the norm when it comes to 4wd loader tractors. I also agree that adequate rear ballast helps a lot with 2wd but does not eliminate the traction issue completely as does the driven front axle on a 4wd. You may find 25% of 4wd loader tractors that have been abused and busted up over a ten year period. My experience has been that it is very difficult to find a 2wd that hasnt been beat up over 10 years, so when you get to 30 or more years, it is litterally like finding a needle in a haystack.

 

[E/S]

Well, I used an outhouse growing up and technically it was as effective as what I now have, but to say one is as good as the other would be misleading.:laughing:

TripleR - Your showing your age.

E/S

 

[TripleR]

TripleR - Your showing your age.

E/S

Feeling it too.

 

[Eagleview]

4X4 tractors are recommended for loader work because of the heavier front axle and wheel bearings as well as the added traction .

 

[Grandad4]

Well, I used an outhouse growing up and technically it was as effective as what I now have, but to say one is as good as the other would be misleading.:laughing:

That kinda puts things in perspective,now, doesn't it? :laughing: