Skid steer cranks slow in cold weather

[Cord]

Last year my skid steer was fairly reliable in cold weather. I just had to make sure it was plugged in or it wouldn't start. Since I bought it, I have added three silicone heaters: oil tank, engine pan and one on the side of the cylinder block. The engine is oil cooled so you can't put a coolant heater on it. This past summer a mason tried to use my skid steer and he left the high flow switch on. The excess load resulted in the starter burning out. By burning out, I mean I thought we were going to lose the machine. Thankfully I keep the machine clean so the flames were not able to spread. I ended up replacing the starter, battery and battery cables. This fall, the machine started to get really cantankerous. Even in cool weather it was hard to start. I have added a ether start system and also put a second manifold heater on. The ether system helped stretch the season, but it was really just crutching the slow crank speed. I've tried to jump start the engine, but it doesn't make a bit of difference. The engine still cranks too slowly to start. When jump starting, the starter is clearly pulling high amps because the cables are warm and I can see the truck lights dimming. With the temps heading below zero, I'm no longer able to start the machine. This also means I also can't plow my driveway. It has now warmed back up into the 10's, but I still can't get it started. I'm at the point of putting a torpedo heater on the darn thing, but I'm afraid of starting it on fire. Even then, I still haven't addressed the problem. Before I go for the nuclear option, I'm wondering if the board has any suggestions?

Complaint: Engine cranks slowly, like the battery is dead. Jump starting does not change the crank speed. Plugging the heaters in do not improve the crank speed.

Fixes applied: New battery in summer, new 1-0 battery cables, new starter(s), ether start, second glow plug, engine heaters.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Pull voltage drops on the starting circuit, that will tell you why it is cranking slow. You will need a good dvom. This link explains things fairly well
Diagnosing Voltage Drops - Electrical Automotive Troubleshooting
It sounds like you missed cleaning a connection or something, chances are it is going to be something simple you have done all the hard stuff. With ether you should be able to start down to -15 along as you can get the crank speed. On computer controlled engines sometimes warming up the water causes the ecu to think it is warm when it is not and the ecu will not inject the ether, actually making it harder to start. That however depends on the engine.

 

[Cord]

I think the cruder test would be for me to hook the jumper cables directly to the starter. If she cranks fine, then I've identified the problem.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

I think the cruder test would be for me to hook the jumper cables directly to the starter. If she cranks fine, then I've identified the problem.

Typically jumper cables do not provide a good enough connection to provide all the amperage a starter would need on its own. If you connected them and the starter cranked fine that would determine that the starter is ok. If it did not crank ok, you羆*e back to the same place. If you google starter circuit voltage drop test there is a lot of information on it, should find your starter circuit problem

 

[truckdiagnostics]

I think the cruder test would be for me to hook the jumper cables directly to the starter. If she cranks fine, then I've identified the problem.

Here is pic on where to connect the meter, basically anything more that .2 at any connection or cable there is an issue. Also, 12 volt battery is fully charged at 12.6volts. If the battery is fully charged and when cranking you are droping below 10.5 you are either drawing mega amps or battery is week. I like to start worring at anything around 11 volts when cranking.

 

[Farmall45b]

Is it possible that the replacement starter was not of the same quality or power rating as the one that had failed? If the starter is of the same quality then a voltage drop test is needed. General spec. is now more that .2 volts per 100 amps flowing on the insulated side and no more than .1 volt per 100 amps flowing on the ground side. Did a ground cable get left off somewhere? An easy test might be to add a redundant ground with something like a jumper cable to the frame of the starter or as close to it as you can get.

 

[skyhook]

I'm wondering if you replaced the starter with the same brand that was on it.
Some starters have gear reduction in them, and they turn much faster than normal ones.

 

[2458n]

What engine do you have?

 

[Cord]

Deutz 1011d, oil cooled version.

Guys, I'm thinking of getting a torpedo heater as my nuclear option (I'll still do the voltage test). Craigslist has two torpedo heater options. Both are $100. There is a propane heater which includes a 40lb tank and a kerosene heater. Both units are 165,000btu and are asking $100. The kero heater appears to be a higher quality unit than the lp one. Although it stinks, I'm thinking the kero heater might be the choice for me because I'll inevitably run out of propane at midnight, in a blizzard. If I have to, I can always use some diesel which I always have on hand. The propane heater has the advantage in that it could be used in doors, but I already have two vertical propane heaters that could be used. Which would you pick?

 

[Cord]

Well, the torpedo will get the unit started, but it needs a good two hours of warming. I'm pretty certain the problem is oil viscosity. This past summer we changed the hydraulic pump and went with an aftermarket unit. I'm thinking this pump is our culprit. My old Waldon loader had the hydraulic pumps above the tank and the machine would not charge the pump if you used too thick of a fluid. That machine required ATF to operate. It had a vane and gear pump and a gear drive motor. I'm now thinking of going to ATF for my winter oil. Will probably change to a AW oil for summer if only to keep the leaks under control. Has anybody else made this change? I'm not concerned about the gear pump as I already know it'll live, but I'm not 100% certain on the piston pumps and motors.