smaller backhoe bucket

[RedDirt]

I'd thought originally to mention that sand guys wouldn't like the hole idea. But my ground is nothing but clay and figured I'd plug them with a pair of fender washers if I ever needed.

The questions was whether holes in the bucket back would release the suction of moist compacted clay that john bud mentioned?

The ones shvl73 has looks like they are more meant to be drains. What size is that bucket you've got there shvl? Do you dig clay? Any problems with the dirt getting out?

BTW - Yesterday I measured a bx24 8" bucket at a dealer. Pin distance and arm width matches bx23. So bx23 folk have option of using the bx24 8" bucket and bx24's could use the bx23 10" bucket. The 8" is only 7" across the face and has 2 bolt on teeth. The 8" runs $308 and the 10" is $354. I figure materials to build one is $125-$150.

Posting on my Kubota own/op narrow bucket thread mentioned narrow buckets will dig with much easier force and maybe teeth are not needed at all. This puts a plus in the bolt-on tooth column. One could build a toothless bucket at minimum cost and only add teeth later if needed.

Much of course depends on the soil conditions one digs. Roots are my obstacle. I may bevel and sharpen the sides as well as the bottom cutting edge. Someone with harder soil and/or rocks would certainly want/need teeth.

 

[shvl73]

The ones shvl73 has looks like they are more meant to be drains. What size is that bucket you've got there shvl? Do you dig clay? Any problems with the dirt getting out?

I have that same standard 16" bucket. It seems to work well in wet clay with no sticking. I'm still thinking of getting the narrow trenching bucket.

 

[john_bud]

Red Dirt,

I don't think the holes would help all that much. The suction is both local and global. The dirt moves in both clumps and in one large chunk. So, you may get some relief in one area, but not in another. Also, the nasty sticky gooy ooze seems to stick well to the bucket and to itself. Bet it would clog up a hole pretty quick. Maybe holes with a tube connected to a 150 psi compressed air?

Or just a narrow long shovel that I also use to plant pine trees....

I have noticed that on a bucket that I repaired, the Dupont industrial Imron gloss paint (Imron 3.5 HG with corlar 2.1 primer) is VERY tough and slippery. The dirt has come off pretty well and the paint has stayed on pretty good. Only dug a 3-5 hundred yard of sandy rock with some clay. Not going to hold up to daily use. Nothing will.

 

[dfkrug]

I'd thought originally to mention that sand guys wouldn't like the hole idea. But my ground is nothing but clay and figured I'd plug them with a pair of fender washers if I ever needed.

The questions was whether holes in the bucket back would release the suction of moist compacted clay that john bud mentioned?

Sand guys would not have the problem with suction and clogged bkts
anyway, most likely.

I have heard for years about holes in the back of narrow bkts to release
the suction. I admit I have not tried it myself, but I do know that the
9" bkt I used to have would clog up very easily. Got rid of it. Has
anyone here gone the hole route and will report first hand?

As for toothless or not, a single tooth in the middle of a narrow bkt
would concentrate the forces for tearing up softer rocks and tree
stumps. I really like those pointed rock-breaking teeth.

 

[charlz]

Cutting edge arrived the other day. Last night I cut piece for the front lip and bent it to fit, my bends were actually pretty close. This morning I cut out the side cutting edge pieces and cleaned up them.



Spent some time welding the edges on the bucket.




On the Hoe and Ready to Go!



First bite! Took a little scratching to get it to go through the 2-3 inches of frozen soil but bit right in after that.



Test trench, little over 12" deep. Note that no soil stuck in the bucket. You can probably tell we have sort of a sandy loam subsoil. This spot is between some raised beds in my garden so all the topsoil has been rolled onto the beds.



Looks like I won't be needing the bucket teeth, as suggested it cuts just fine without them.

I guess I can call this one a success and move on to other projects... like taking the hoe off for the winter

All told I have less than $80 in this project and some of that is cutting/shipping fees.

Charles

 

[john_bud]

Looks like a coat of paint and it will be indistinguishable from a factory piece!

I don't think you will have much issue with soil sticking. When I've had stuck buckets, it's been in areas with BLACK soil or when hitting a layer of wet clay.

I did double check your side cutters. My gut tells me that you cut them too short. More overlap with the bucket side would have made them stronger. Probably not an issue, but keep an eye on the weld. If you see it start to crack, weld on a piece on the bottom of the side cutters to re-enforce them. No big deal.

One nice thing about a toothless bucket, it makes a very nice smooth bottom.

If you want a bit of extra work, get some hard face rod and weld a 45 degree cross hatch pattern on the outside of the bucket. Use it for a bit, then were it is getting shiny, that's the area you want to put that pattern on. It will keep the bucket from wearing out. About 1.5 - 2" squares.

Merry Christmas,
jb

 

[RedDirt]

Nice work charlz, what's your next project?
I noticed that both your new and old buckets have no boss at the "ears" for the pins. This is why your old pins wwere worn, ridged. The boss is just a short length of bushing stock welded to the holes of the ears that increases the bearing width of the pin against the hole. If you find your new pin wearing think about adding these "hole extensions". You may want to do this on your large bucket as judging from the original pin you took out, the holes are probably worn and likely a bit out-of-round. Sorry I didn't see this sooner so I could have mentioned it earlier.

john_bud,
Looking at charlz earlier photos it looks like the side cutting edges are pretty much a match from his old bucket. And when looking at the new bucket fully curled it seems the side edges need to be short to clear the lever mechanism.
john, I have a question about your hardfacing comment. I have some rod left over from a blade I built for my Cat years ago. Do you mean weld an "X" across the outsides of the bucket to judge wear? Or does the wear occur elsewhere, like on the outside bottom? I understand the concept of of looking for the wear area after use then crosshatching, just not where to put the initial beads.
BTW, any hints on placing hardfacing. It was long ago but I seem to remember lower amps than "normal" and steeper rod angle.

 

[patrick_g]

Dontcha jus lovit when a plan comes together? Nice job!

Maybe the frozen or nearly frozen soil just doesn't stick as bad as warm moist soil. I was expecting that you'd get good penetration with the little bucket without teeth. With all your digging force concentrated on such a small area (cutting edge of little bucket) it should bite in much easier than a larger bucket. Teeth may not be needed if you aren't ever digging in a lot of rock.

That sample trench is one fine cut, looks like it was done by a machinist.

Pat

 

[charlz]

Nice work charlz, what's your next project?

Probably a subsoiler/middlebuster. I have some ditches I want to re-point. I like the looks of the Rankin one that lets you adjust the height of the shank. No dealers around here and why spend that much $$ on something you might use once a year?

I also need to put a new seat on my tractor and come up with a better solution to the 'backhoe seat' adapter which allows you to spin the seat around and raise it. The current one limits the height of the upper 3pt arms.

I noticed that both your new and old buckets have no boss at the "ears" for the pins. This is why your old pins wwere worn, ridged. The boss is just a short length of bushing stock welded to the holes of the ears that increases the bearing width of the pin against the hole. If you find your new pin wearing think about adding these "hole extensions". You may want to do this on your large bucket as judging from the original pin you took out, the holes are probably worn and likely a bit out-of-round. Sorry I didn't see this sooner so I could have mentioned it earlier.

I think I did mention that in an earlier post. The big bucket ear holes were out of round about 1/4 inch. I welded them in and re-worked the holes. Since this tractor and hoe are 30 years old I figured that would be good enough for the next 30

john_bud,
Looking at charlz earlier photos it looks like the side cutting edges are pretty much a match from his old bucket. And when looking at the new bucket fully curled it seems the side edges need to be short to clear the lever mechanism.

Yep, they are copies of the large bucket. I would have to look at the hoe again to see if they do need to be that short. I'm going to be keeping my eye on the overall bucket anyway... especially the welds if you know what I mean


Thanks for the comments guys!
Charles

 

[john_bud]

Reddirt,

The "X" pattern on the outside bottom of the bucket with hard face rod is to keep the bucket from wearing, not to judge wear rate. It seems odd at first, but after hearing the why's it makes sense. The space inbetween the "X" will fill with dirt and won't wear very fast, if at all. The X being hard face, also won't wear very fast. It's 90% as effective as hard facing the entire bottom of the bucket (that's where they wear out first) and only 5% as expensive. With a bucket that size, it won't take much to protect it.

On the side cutters, I was meaning to extend them downward (away from the cutting edge) so they overlap onto the sides of the bucket more. It would give more grip area and also reduces the bending moment on the sides of the bucket as the pivot point is the bottom of the cutters, not the top. Again, probably not needed, but an area to eyeball as it is used.

Small stuff, that may not be needed at all. Sort of like your pointing out the extra bearing surfaces for the pins. (One I missed, by the way!) Not required, but adding them just makes it that much closer to perfect.

jb