I'm a new user looking for some advice about an issue I have with what started out to be a somewhat simple project converting my Kubota L3000DT FEL to quick attach and adding front remotes to operate a snow plow. The quick attach part came out great, but the hydraulics, not so much. Basically I interrupted the curl and dump lines from the FEL control valve with Prince double selector valve DS1A1D, so one side of the valve runs to the original steel lines the hoses were connected to and other side of the valve has two new lines to the front for quick connects. I have an Agco DB384A plow quick-attach setup and when I move the joystick to the left it moves then move the joystick to the right it does not move and by reversing the quick connects, it moves to the right and not the left. I'm confused because the curl and dump function works as normal and all I did was add the valve to redirect the flow. I'm fairly new to hydraulics, but it seems straight forward so any insight would be very appreciated.
Snowplow only angle one direction
- Thread starter Scycle
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kennyd
Advertiser
The "L" series Kubota's have full time "regen" or regenarative function on the dump (joystick right) side of the valve. There is LOTS of reading on this subject, so search the tern "regen" and read for a few hours, then we can discuss other options like adding a new valve or plumbing your diverter into the lift/lower circuit.
Oh, and Welcome to TBN.
Oh, and Welcome to TBN.
Fallon
Super Member
Yup, read up on regen, lots of info on here & likely your problem.
Thanks KennyD,
So the regen is the problem and I need a 4 position valve, I prefer not to use the lift/lower circuit and utilize the parts I've spent a fair amount of $$ on if possible. I forgot to mention the loader is a Kubota LA450S. I've looked at some valves but don't understand what 2 spool, monoblock and other terms for valves and hydraulics so not sure what I need. I have to look at my valve closely, because someone mentioned to me about replacing a section of the valve if it's bolted together.
So the regen is the problem and I need a 4 position valve, I prefer not to use the lift/lower circuit and utilize the parts I've spent a fair amount of $$ on if possible. I forgot to mention the loader is a Kubota LA450S. I've looked at some valves but don't understand what 2 spool, monoblock and other terms for valves and hydraulics so not sure what I need. I have to look at my valve closely, because someone mentioned to me about replacing a section of the valve if it's bolted together.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Yup, Regen is the problem.
A few options.
Since you say the plow won't move one direction (,that's regen) I assume you have a plow with single acting cylinders. You can put a single DA cylinder on, but will have to be a larger cylinder to compensate for lack of force in Regen.
You can also supply the diverter (manual selector) with the raise and lower functions but that would be a pain constantly switching that valve Everytime you want to go from raise/lower to angle.
I'd get an electric solenoid diverter if it was mine. And a button on the joystick to control. That way, push and pull on the stick is raise and lower. Hold the button and do the same motion is left and right. Basically the same thing you have now but a button to control instead of a lever
A few options.
Since you say the plow won't move one direction (,that's regen) I assume you have a plow with single acting cylinders. You can put a single DA cylinder on, but will have to be a larger cylinder to compensate for lack of force in Regen.
You can also supply the diverter (manual selector) with the raise and lower functions but that would be a pain constantly switching that valve Everytime you want to go from raise/lower to angle.
I'd get an electric solenoid diverter if it was mine. And a button on the joystick to control. That way, push and pull on the stick is raise and lower. Hold the button and do the same motion is left and right. Basically the same thing you have now but a button to control instead of a lever
kennyd
Advertiser
Scycle,
You have a few basic options at this point, as I see it anyway:
1) The only way to "utilize what you've already spend money on" is to add the manual diverter on the lift/lower circuit, or:
2) Replace the two SA cylinders with one DA as LD1 mentioned above. Option #1 is a pain as LD1 also mentioned, unless you went with a electric diverter like he wrote.
3) Add a true 3rd function from WR Long to your machine, or make up one yourself.
4) Add a rear remote stack to you tractor with 1, 2, or three spools, this can be mounted on the fender and you can use the other spools for other items at the rear if wanted/needed.
5) Adding a new section to your loader valve is not really feasible.
Although costly, options 3 or 4 are really your only viable solutions in my opinion. Yes it sucks, but unfortunately that is the reality here if you want your plow to work properly. The upside is you will then have the hydraulics to run other things like a grapple to TnT setup on your 3PH.
You have a few basic options at this point, as I see it anyway:
1) The only way to "utilize what you've already spend money on" is to add the manual diverter on the lift/lower circuit, or:
2) Replace the two SA cylinders with one DA as LD1 mentioned above. Option #1 is a pain as LD1 also mentioned, unless you went with a electric diverter like he wrote.
3) Add a true 3rd function from WR Long to your machine, or make up one yourself.
4) Add a rear remote stack to you tractor with 1, 2, or three spools, this can be mounted on the fender and you can use the other spools for other items at the rear if wanted/needed.
5) Adding a new section to your loader valve is not really feasible.
Although costly, options 3 or 4 are really your only viable solutions in my opinion. Yes it sucks, but unfortunately that is the reality here if you want your plow to work properly. The upside is you will then have the hydraulics to run other things like a grapple to TnT setup on your 3PH.
LD1
Epic Contributor
I'd still consider an electric diverter as a viable option.
That's how I run my plow and grapple both off the diverter and lift circuit
That's how I run my plow and grapple both off the diverter and lift circuit
Thank you both, being a hydraulic novice, this is new to me. Curious though; what would describe my current valve type and what do i need? I think I'm confusing the terms like is a 2-spool the same as double acting and 3-way the same as 3-position? I think I have a 2-spool/3-position and need a 2-spool / 4-position.
I use 2 single acting opposed cylinders from a converted truck plow off of my loader hydraulics for left/right. So this is a mechanically connected double acting cylinder. Then a double acting for up/down. I need and use down pressure on my plow for tackling ice buildups. Just an old p/u truck plow. Works VERY well.
LD1
Epic Contributor
What valve? The selector or your loader valve?
LD1
Epic Contributor
Can't really look at it as a mechanically connected DA cylinder. Since a DA cylinder works on Regen....and a pair of SA cylinders don't.
davisgary2
Bronze Member
3 Spool 25 GPM Joystick Loader Valve w/Grapple | Directional Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com I was looking at this valve, would this work for a snowplow grapple application?
LD1
Epic Contributor
A little more detail on this now that I am home.
Number of spools is mechanically how many spools is in the valve. In other words how many circuits it can control.
A loader valve is 2-spools. Older equipment...this meant two levers. Modern stuff has a joystick to control two spools. One spool controls raise and lower either by pushing in on the spool or pulling out. The other spool controls curl and dump...again either by pushing or pulling the spool into and out of the valve body. The spool is what actually directs the fluid from the different ports.
Now the term 3-way or 4 way has to do with weather the valve is designed for a single output per spool like a singe, single acting cylinder. Which would be a 3-way with only P T and a single work port.
A 4-way valve has TWO outputs per spool to control a double acting cylinder. Or in the case of a snow plow...a pair of single acting cylinder.
A 2-way valve would be like a ball valve. Simple on and off.
A 6-way valve would be like your selector that has only one spool for directing flow, but has 4 output ports PLUS the P and T...so 6 total
Number of positions has to do with how many positions the lever has for each spool.
3-way is standard. It has a neutral where nothing happens, one direction to pressurize one of the work ports, and another position to pressurize the other work port (if controlling a DA cylinder) or in the case of a single SA cylinder, the other position would just vent back to tank and let gravity work.
4-pos means the valve lever has a 4th position. Like your raise and lower on your loader. You have up, neutran, down, and float.
Some have 4 the position detent to hold the valve on. Some are only 3 position but still have a detent on one or both directions.
A 2- position valve would not be used for a double acting cylinder, but sometimes on a SA cylinder. Where you hold the lever to actuate the hydraulics, and letting off returns to neutral.
Would this valve work to replace the loader valve which has a detent before it goes into regen that would angle the plow right? Some of the reading I've done talks about an optional 4 position valve offered by Kubota, but I don't recall being told about it.
2 Spool Compact 1 GPM Joystick Control Valve | Brand | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com
LD1
Epic Contributor
Yes, that valve should work as long as you don't push it all the way into Regen when trying to angle right.
For similar money thought, I'd get a joystick with a button and an electric solenoid diverter and forget the manual selector. Especially if you have any plans for a grapple.in your future
For similar money thought, I'd get a joystick with a button and an electric solenoid diverter and forget the manual selector. Especially if you have any plans for a grapple.in your future
LD1
Epic Contributor
Fallon
Super Member
To clarify...
Regen dumps full hydraulic pressure to both the rod & cylinder ends of the system. As the cylinder side of the piston has more surface area than the rod end (because the rod is there taking up space) the cylinder end overpowers the rod end to extend the cylinder. They do this because dumping a full bucket quickly requires a lot of fluid (rod end fluid moves from the rod end hoses to the cylinder end in addition to the fresh fluid from the valve). Also due to leverage of the load pulling down on the bucket if there isn't plenty of pressurized fluid avalible worn cylinders will suck in air. That causes floppy buckets & nobody respects a floppy bucket.
If you apply regen (full pressure) to both sides of a pair of single acting cylinders they are equal. One isn't smaller than the other because of the rod taking up space.
