Specs anyone?

[Rob-D]

What’s in an engine?

You can buy a Briggs or Yanmar engine or you can buy a Deere for instance, with a Briggs or Yanmar in it.

What’s the difference?

Tolerances. John Deere might very well tell an engine supplier, “We want tighter specs.” And they probably do.

Tighter specs give more consistent performance. Specs may be the difference between a seal leaking prematurely or not leaking at all.

I’ve pulled lots of engines apart from VW’s to Porsches and while the Porsche may have more gussets, external oil tanks and other fancy racing stuff you can still get piston manufacturers who sell pistons for both engines and can essentially have a very respectable four cylinder VW pancake engine in an old ‘Bug’. It’s not magic any racer will tell you that a blue printed engine is better . What’s a blue printed engine? One that is exactly that and that is to follow the blueprint. (usually the tighter tolerances of the blueprint especially in racing engines).

An engine supplier may run a carbide borer to its limit or beyond before changing it. The better manufacturers change cutters when they should. Toyotas made here are made by the same type of people that make other cars here but Toyotas hold up because they are tighter.

Here’s another tidbit. Buy a VCR from Wally world and the same one from a supplier who doesn’t have the buying clout of Wmart and you get two different machines. Wmart actually tells suppliers to cut corners on parts or do what ever they have to in order to meet prices Wmart sets. Think about that the next time you want a TV.

What kind of a tractor did I buy? I bought a John Deere. Cost a little more? I think that’s up for debate.

 

[cast_and_blast]

Here’s another tidbit. Buy a VCR from Wally world and the same one from a supplier who doesn’t have the buying clout of Wmart and you get two different machines. Wmart actually tells suppliers to cut corners on parts or do what ever they have to in order to meet prices Wmart sets. Think about that the next time you want a TV.

Let's say it's a computer or VCR or TV from WalMart vs the same computer or VCR or TV from Best Buy or Circuit City, etc. If it's the same model number from the manufacturer (e.g. Panasonic, Compaq, Sony) the WalMart version is supposedly materially different?

Why, as a manufacturer, would I support this? The warranty is the same, the manual is the same, tech support is the same, etc.

I'm far from a WalMart apologist, but I find this one tough to swallow without some proof.

Scott

 

[Rob-D]

C&B,
Good question!
I'm not sure you get the same series number from Wall Mart. You can run an assembly line with cheaper capacitors or tape transports simply by switching to the cheaper ones when you pack for a buyer.

Think about this. You buy a 1 lb. size can of coffee from Wmart and the same size from Stop & Shop. Wmart shows an add saying our price on the same Hills Brother's Coffee is 'x' amount cheaper. Examining the cans what you find is that, even though the cans are the same size, Hill Bros. put LESS coffee in the Wmart can.

We all buy from Wmart when we need to stretch our money. Caveat emptor.

 

[ShookFarm]

I can't speak for each and every item on the Wal-Mart shelf. What I can tell you is this. Buy electronics from Wal-Mart then go to the manufacturer's web site and try to find manuals referencing the model number sold at Wal-Mart. You'll have trouble matching the model number exactly (that's been my experience, anyway). Probably holds true for a lot of products, too. You'd have to test it to verify.

There is something to it and a Wal-Mart insider (I'm sure there are some on TBN) can probably echo what's already been said. Wal-Mart is a huge volume purchaser and what they contract for is what gets made. If you don't want to build it their way, they'll find someone who will and meet their price point. They are ruthless to small companies and squeeze them for all they are worth. Now, that ruthlessness has enabled every one of us to maximize the value of the dollar in our pocket. But it's also driven small stores out of business because they can't compete on price.

This isn't meant to be a Wal-Mart bashing, it is what it is. Wal-Mart has saved me lots of money over the course of my life, but it's also tied my hands at times. You take the good with the bad.

 

[hankus]

Walmart isn't alone in this effort to get your dollar. Costco is no different. A lot of their products I swear are special runs made just for them. Trying to find manufacturer support is hard to do when your model number is unique to Costco and doesn't match anything. Or the product you buy at a super price you find out later to be discontinued.

 

[Rob-D]

We had Wmart come in to a town not to far from here and they did some real damage to local business. Then all the big boys came in. Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.

I think it is the way of things in a capitalistic society. I ran a business here and on the net and I have respect for the small businesses in my small upstate NY town. I try to buy from them when ever I can even if it cost a few bucks more.

I did this with my JD too. The people I bought from are an old town business. You know the type, you go in to get your trailer inspected and they wind up cleaning a bulb socket so you can get through the inspection. I let them know how I appreciated that when I bought my machine. It may have cost me a few bucks more but I know when it comes down the line I can count on them. That means a lot to me as I'll bet it does to many of you.

Yep, I buy at Wally Mart and I have good friends who squeak by every week and are forced to go there but when I can afford it they're second on my shopping list.

 

[ShookFarm]

Back to your original intent - I kind of got side tracked by the tangent my brain saw. To me, it's about the company standing behind the product. When I bought my LT110 lawnmower, I could have purchased the Briggs & Stratton engine, but I opted for the Kohler. Kohler's reputation led me down that path. I've never owned a Kohler product that didn't serve me well with no service problems. I can't say that about B&S. Could just be me, though.

John Deere has cultivated a similar reputation. Yeah, now and then they make a poor engineering choice and we pay the price. The fact of the matter is, they have a lot riding on their name and what they've done to build it (or sell it, for that matter). The intent of the company, though, is to provide a superior product and I believe it is indeed superior in some ways.

The JD parts and distribution network appears to be second to none. If I buy a Branson, Mahindra, Kioti or any of the other dozen or so makes, I am buying a product that is no doubt a very good product. However, if my local dealer folds, I may be dealing with another dealer 300+ miles away. Most generally, that's not the case with John Deere (or most of the other "big brands").

I think it's basically gambling. You have to be willing to assume the risk in any decision you make. If you want to save money on the front end, you might be sacrificing on the back end. You also may be the one laughing all the way to the bank! However, the only way to find out is to do it. Be informed, arm yourself with knowledge and buyer beware.

Quality "may" command a premium, but what is the cost/benefit ratio? It's probably different for all of us.

 

[Rob-D]

Kolher is twice the engine of a Briggs. I've been inside both of them aside from the Briggs industrial, in fairness to them it might be a worty engine.

 

[JasonMac]

Wal-Mart will often use the same or similar part/model numbers and pass it off as being the same exact item you will buy elsewhere.

I am in the Outdoor Sporting Goods business (Hunting & Fishing). I can prove they do this. I prove it all the time through out the year, every year.

A few examples, Some well known brand guns that you buy from me, and the same model shotguns you buy from Wal-Mart are very similar in every way until you look at the fine details. Usually there is one or two small details that are either left out for Wal-Mart, or replaced by a Cheaper Detail for Wal-Mart.

Many Major Reel Manufacturers do this too. So even though you think well it's only cheap because of Walmarts buying power, that's not always the case, they do leave out some details, and sell for a lesser price.

A friend of the family owns a gun company who walmart sells their guns, yes the guns are good and useable, but they might tell his company to maybe put less expensive sights on the gun or don't flute the barrells, etc... little things the average guy wouldn't notice or compare at first glance.

The other thing they do a lot is instead of putting 12 of something in a package just say some fishing hooks for example they will put in 9 or 10 in the package instead of 12 like you would buy off from me. Same packaging and everything, except in small print instead of 12 count you may see 9 count. But at first glance you won't notice it and you think WOOOWWW, they are selling the same product waaaaayyy cheaper.... and actually it isn't. They don't do this with everything of course, but they do it a lot.

 

[Rob-D]

That's exactly right. I bought a cooler from Wmart and when I compared it to the same cooler at another store later on I found Wmart left out the extra food tray the other store included. My cooler was in a sealed box and I examined it well before buying it.

It's not that I minded doing without the tray, it wasn't much but again, when I have the money I don't go their. I always worry that the oil you get or the oil filters are some how short changed in a way we'll never see.