Steel tires

ric · Jan 29, 2002

About 20 years I worked on flathead Ford V8 engines for fun and occassionally for some of the farmers around where I lived. One day a friend showed up in my garage and wanted to know if I could work on the engine in his tractor if he delivered it. Later he rolls in with a Ford tractor with Ford flathead V8 engine. Other than the engine the most unusual part of the tractor was it had steel wheels and tires front and rear that looked like R1's. When I asked where he got those he said they came on the tractor when his grandfather bought it new and those were the second set. About 10 years ago I saw a newer John Deere with similar wheels and tires on it. I assume it was newer tractor it was a diesel. Wonder where you could get steel wheels and tires today?

HalseyGreen · Jan 30, 2002

Not sure you can call them "steel tires", they are steel wheels with no rubber. You found them on Ford's and others during WWII, when rubber was going to the war effort. I have seen them in the classified ad section of the "Lancaster Farming News". For those of you not familiar with this paper, its a weekly rag that comes out of Lancaster, PA. If full of farming articles, and a whole section of 20 or so pages of classified and dealer ads for farming equipment plus another section of all things from construction equipment, building, animals, fencing, dairy equipment and vehicles for sale. Back to the steel tires, I have noticed them for sale on equipment that I beleive to have been operated by the Amish or the like. Hope this helps. If you want more information about the Lancaster Farming News, let me know and I will get you the address and cost.

bgott · Jan 30, 2002

Some 2N Ford tractors during WWII came with magnetoes and steel wheels and hand cranks due to wartime shortages. The most common flathead V-8 conversion kit was made by a company named Funk. They have pictures of them at www.ytmag.com. It must have been a real treat to get any traction out of a V8 on steel.

Thomas · Jan 30, 2002

Closes I could come w/a photo of a Ford w/steel wheels.
Not sure I would want to get on some ice w/those steel wheels. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

RoyJackson · Jan 30, 2002

A friend of mine restored a '55 John Deere 70.
The attached pic is not his tractor, but was on a website he directed me to when I asked him about his "Johnny Popper"
The site URL is:

http://johnnypopper.com/

MJB · Jan 30, 2002

Steel wheels were the only wheels you could get on tractors up until the 1930s. Allis Chalmers was the first major tractor manufacturer to equip their units with rubber tires as standard equipment. Many farmers resisted the change to rubber tires for years. Of course, many old-time farmers don't consider something new as being "field tested" until it has been in use for 20 years or so./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Strangely enough, rubber tires actually get better traction than those old steel lugged wheels. The Nebraska tractor tests were finally able to prove to the old farmers that the rubber tires were actually better, unless they were working in areas where flat tires were common. Rubber shortages during WWII did cause a return to steel wheels for a while, but it was not really a major problem since steel shortages meant that there were not that many new tractors built either.

Joe_W · Jan 30, 2002

In Ohio and probably most farming states we have antique tractor shows, steam thresher shows and other farm-related activities that will have flea markets with old tractor items for sale. If you don't find any steel wheels at one, I bet that if you ask some of the people that have restored some of these old pieces of farm equipment, they may have some extra wheels or know someone that does.
Good Luck
Joe W.

RobertN · Jan 30, 2002

The Nebraska tests did kind of double duty. One, as you mention, rubber gave better traction. A bonus is that fuel consumption improved too. One of my books has numbers for the improvements, but of course I can't find the reference right now... The other big thing about rubber, was operator comfort; the ride is much smoother.

The rubber tires have more flex, and can conform to the ground better, giving more traction.

The original concept was tested by Firestone, using an Allis Model-U. The testing actually took place on the Firestone family farm.

MJB · Jan 30, 2002

I remember reading somewhere that Allis Chalmers hired Barney Oldfield (famous race car driver of the time) to drive an Allis Model U with rubber tires and a special high speed axle ratio. The tractor would do about 60mph on the test track. The idea was to show farmers how much better the tractors drove and rode with the rubber tires instead of steel. Must have been quite a sight./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

ric · Jan 30, 2002

Thanks for the tip on where to find these in Ohio. I'll check it out. My goal here is not traction but uptime. I have alot of ground that I need to get into with high grass, thorn bushes small trees and so on and I'd like to not have to spend alot of time fixing flat tires. Plus it seems to me steel wheels and tires would likely be inherently heavier which speaks for itself. I rented a bobcat a few years ago that had solid rubber R4 tires on it that I used in places I'd be concerned about balloon tires surviving inflated. The rims were taller than the standard rim and the "tires" were about 5 inches thick solid rubber. Went everywhere no flats. Ever since then I been thinking about how to apply this to my L245DT. All the tires on the 245 are flatproofed which works great but I just know one day my luck will run out in the worst spot. Thanks. ric

pfoxy · Jan 30, 2002

I think you are making an erroneous assumption when you say steel "tires" (more properly called wheels) are inherently heavier than rubber. I doubt that's the case, tho I don't have statistics to prove it.

The spinejarring ride and the lack of traction will more than offset any increase in weight. Finding wheels to fit your hubs/axles and clear your fenders will be a major PITA too.

JMHO, but I think your money would be better spent "flat-proofing" the tires you have.

ric · Jan 31, 2002

pfoxy, I switched the steel tires and rims for like rims and rubbers tires on the Ford V8 I described above. The steel rim and tire wheels were heavier than the rubber tire and rim wheels front and rear leading me to think for the limited use if I could make this switch I'd have the added reliability of steel tires and the benefit of the added weight. The rubber tires I put on the Ford were not filled with anything, and I'd agree, filled they would be much heavier. Weight is not my goal, eliminating flats and tire damage is. I agree that flatproofing is the best thing for now which is why all my tractor tires are already flat proofed. ric

pfoxy · Feb 1, 2002

Well. Guess I was wrong then, eh? First time that's ever happened....not. ":^)

Have you tried it out yet? If so, how'd it work for ya?

ric · Feb 1, 2002

pfoxy, Still looking for some steel wheels. It is possible I have some spotted already in a wrecking yard in southern ohio. The alternative I am considering to steel wheels is buying some used wheels and tires like the R1's I have on the tractor and fill them with foam and use them for rough service instead of my newer tires currently on the tractor. As I think you mentioned there will be some cost and hassle to either set up so I'll need to work on the best result with the least cost. I have been renting a bobcat from time to time to do this work in the past in small sections which has produced some significant results. Almost wish I owned a bobcat instead of a tractor. ric

Bob_Trevithick · Feb 1, 2002

Yike... is that wheel on the side a flywheel? I wonder how many people got their leg or arm tangled up in that thing?? /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

MJB · Feb 1, 2002

That is the flywheel. On the old JDs you actually started the tractor by turning the flywheel by hand. It sounds and looks dangerous but probably isn't any worse that starting one using a crank.

bgott · Feb 2, 2002

It's safer, you don't have to worry about the flywheel flipping around and breaking your arm.

jinman · Feb 2, 2002

Ric, here is a photo of a Ford 2N which came with steel wheels front and rear and also a magneto ignition. There was a war shortage of rubber and copper and this tractor was the result of having none of those rare commodities for production. The photo and facts are courtesy of "Ford Tractors" by Robert Pripps and Andrew Morland, Motorbooks International - 1992, ISBN 0-87938-471-9, $19.95 US.

As Halsey Green stated, there are a few of these around since over 16,000 of these tractors were produced in 1942. Normal yearly production was over 40,000.

looch · Feb 4, 2002

I seem to remember my dad telling me about the starting system on my grandfather's tractor (in Italy). You screwed a charge into one of the cylinder heads and wacked it with a sledge hammer. The explosion would turn the engine over. If you missed your first shot, you'd have to unscrew it and use another. Anyone ever hear of this? I know this has no relevence to the subject of this thread, and I apologize. It sparked a memory since this tractor also had steel wheels.

RoyJackson · Feb 4, 2002

I seem to remember my dad telling me about the starting system on my grandfather's tractor (in Italy). You screwed a charge into one of the cylinder heads and wacked it with a sledge hammer. The explosion would turn the engine over. If you missed your first shot, you'd have to unscrew it and use another. Anyone ever hear of this? I know this has no relevence to the subject of this thread, and I apologize. It sparked a memory since this tractor also had steel wheels.

I've never seen it on a tractor, but some big trucks used a setup like that. Also, when I was in the Navy, we'd see some of the old reciprocating (radial) engined (late WW II and Korea War vintage) aircraft using an explosive charge to turn the engines.