Sweating question.... hmmmm

Richard · May 7, 2005

Plumbing question /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I just got done rerouting some pipes in the basement and added an additional outside faucet.

Part of what I sweated was a verticle joint.

I know that heat will draw the solder in, but I saw an awful lot of solder dripping down the side...after all, gravity IS king /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

My question is, do "verticle" sweats (verticle pipe and an elbow on top) suck up solder just as easy or will that inherently be a weak joint?

I don't WANT to drain the water & redo it all as it seems to be working perfectly fine.

If on the other hand, if what I'm calling verticle solders are inherently weak, it might be worth taking apart now (after marking the angles) and putting it all back after resoldering that specific joint.

I REALLY don't want to do that though, unless there's a lot of inherent wisdom in it. I put a lot of solder there to give it plenty of opportunity to suck it up.

Oh, and I heated the opposite side of the elbow from where I put the solder. I also heated the "bend" in the elbow so by the time the heat reached the actual joints and warmed them up enough to melt the solder, I'm fairly sure that being hot enough was not an issue.

Any thoughts/wisdom?

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RoyJackson · May 7, 2005

Vertical joints can be tough. The joint will only pull in so much solder. What you saw dripping down must have been excess solder.

If you cleaned the fittings and tubing prior to sweating the joint and, since you have no leaks, you must have gotten a good.s joint.

If there are no leaks, by no means do you want to tear anything apart to fix what may not be broken!

_RaT_ · May 7, 2005

I never have problems with vertical sweat joints. If it is clean, very clean, fluxed, it will pull in all the solder needed to make as strong of a joint as anywhere else. The biggest problem I see folks having is not having a clean deoxidized joint and to much heat. You can have to little heat, but I find more often then not, folks use to much, burning of the flux and leaving a reoxidized copper pipe and fitting resulting in a greater possibility of a leak or failure down the road.

Richard · May 7, 2005

Well, I think I like hearing all that /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I guess my fear is that a regular joint might get "X" amount of solder inside it and a vertical joint might only get 1/2 (or something like that) of that amount.

This con-founded joint was right next to a joist and sill plate where the blocks transition to the logs so there was wood everywhere. I just detest soldering in a tight woody area like that with open flames /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I finally got an old piece of marble tile (for flooring) and put it behind the joint to help prevent a 'minor' issue of another kind.

thanks for the thoughts, I guess I'll just keep an eye on it for awhile and see if I notice any leaks.

Richard · May 7, 2005

Oh, and I might add, I always try... no, I dont try, I always DO clean both the inside and outside parts of the joint with that "sandpaper" stuff for plumbing and I flux both parts liberally.

When I'm done sanding, if I so much as touch the area with my skin, I'll sand it again. My goal is to have sandpaper & flux be the last things to touch a joint before the solder is applied.

I'll keep fingers crossed.

beenthere · May 7, 2005

In my experience, it will leak right away or be good to go.

I find vertical joints make me nervous too, but also find too much heat is not good. Enough heat to see the solder wick up, and then quit. Trying to add more solder with more heat tends to make a 'dry' joint void of solder.

Glad you don't have a leak.

RoyJackson · May 7, 2005

"I'll keep fingers crossed"

Anyway, once you have water in a system, it's a real pain to get a good joint...even with a good purge. Blowing low pressure (10 PSI or thereabouts) might get all the tubing dried out...

Richard · May 7, 2005

Ya know, along those lines, my brother in law gave me an idea once that I've never needed to use and don't know how it'd work.

He said he takes bread and stuffs the pipe with a piece of it to keep the water "dribbles" back after draining. The bread gets soaked when the water is turned on and will then pass through the system.

Never tried it but sure sounded reasonable.

techman · May 7, 2005

You are right, but mine usually go w/o a problem. The strength of the joint is a matter of having the gap betwen the pipe and fitting filled. If cleaned and fluxed well, it should wick in and fill the gap, making a full strength joint. Anything dripping down is excess if the fillet in the joint is full, and the extra would not have increased joint strength.

Last year I found a great product. I ran out of flux and went down to the Depot and picked up a can of "Tinning Flux". The tin has a green lid, and the flux is gray rather than dark brown. It has powered tin mixed in the flux. After you flux the parts and assemble them, when you heat it and the flux reacts it tins the surfaces in the joint right away. Apply a bit of solder and it flows in better than I've ever seen before. Makes a perfect joint every time. I recently added to the house and had to redo about 60% of my first floor plumbing as well as the new section's needs. Dozens and dozens of joints, all easy and not a single leaker. That included quite a few verticals.

paul

thcri · May 7, 2005

Richard,

More than likely you are ok based on your facts that you cleaned it good. We do vertical joints all the time with no problems. The thing with a vertical joint is your flux will run down and clean as you heat it and therefore solder follows. I think you would be surprised how much solder is in that joint if you heated it properly and had it cleaned. By heating it properly I mean letting the coppoer heat the solder and not the torch itself.

murph